Menopause With Friends: Dawn Schimke on Puberty, Pregnancy, Menopause, and Using Herbs to Support Midlife Transitions

Today, we have another menopause with friends episode. And this week I'm delighted to introduce you to my friend, Dawn Schimke Dawn is an herbalist and works with plant medicines. For many, many years, she worked in the hospitality industry, but she got out. And so she calls herself a recovering hospitality specialist.  

But today we talked specifically about her journey through perimenopause and menopause. Don also struggled with some preexisting conditions, PCO S which is polycystic ovarian syndrome and a genetic disorder called ehlers Danlos syndrome. So I found it really illuminating to look at the interplay.  

Of the perimenopausal rollercoaster with those preexisting conditions. It's important to remember that perimenopause does not [00:01:00] happen in a vacuum. We also talk very, very frankly, about mental illness and suicidal ideation. So at that's a possible trigger for you. Please proceed with caution. As always the information contained in this podcast is no substitute for professional and individualized medical care or psychological support.  

In fact it is our hope. That these conversations will give you the tools to get the excellent help you deserve when you need it. I have loved, loved, loved hearing from so many of you when a guest shares something that really resonates with your experience. Or that sparks new conversations or ways of thinking about your own health?  

Sexuality or relationships. I've even had a few folks reach out to me who were nowhere near menopause or will never go through [00:02:00] menopause. So thank you for being great allies. To those of us who are in the thick of it. If you have questions about menopause or perimenopause that have not been answered so far in this season of pause to go.  

DME with your questions on Instagram at the lovely unbecoming voice memos are great. Or email me@briatthelovelyunbecoming.com. And I'll try to address them before I wrap up season one. Later this month. The links to both of those are in the show notes. In short. This is though week to send me your questions or thoughts about menopause and perimenopause. And for now enjoy this conversation with my friend Dawn.  

Bree: Well, I'm, 

I'm really happy to have you here today. Cause I know that we have connected over the last couple of years about your [00:03:00] work with herbs as an herbalist and plant medicines, which is something that, that I've been intrigued by and interested in for a while too. 

And so I'm really happy to have you here to talk a little bit about perimenopause and menopause and your story in relation to that as a healer and as a human. Don. I'd love to begin by asking you a question that I ask everyone on the podcast, which is how old are you and where are you in the perimenopause menopause process? 

Dawn: I am 51 and change and I am in menopause and I actually was in full menopause when, by the time I was 47 and, so the Perry years were relatively,[00:04:00] they were distinct, but they were shorter than average. I believe. So. There's good points and bad points. And there's a whole backstory to why I am in menopause at a relatively early age. 

Well, let's  

Bree: talk about that. Why are you in menopause at what feels like a relatively early age? Cause yes, the average age for menopause is between 50 and 51. So 47 is a little is a little shy of that.  

 so when I was 21 years old, just on the cusp of graduating from college 

Dawn: i, discovered rather abruptly that I had an ovarian cyst. And I didn't discover obviously the, the OB GYN discovered, but I went in because I, I'm not sure if it was a routine checkup or if I went in because I was experiencing some pain. [00:05:00] but I believe it was routine. And then I spoke of experiencing pain occasionally, and it was pain during sex during intercourse, and not all the time, but some of the time. 

And so he, he was an old school OB GYN. He was actually my mom's and had saved her life when, she was having, after she had my sisters her placenta hadn't been completely, removed. cause my sisters were premature twins and she, the complications of course with that are, are hemorrhaging and , he saved her life. 

And she was very loyal to him. And so I went to him as well. He was an older guy. And a little intimidating to me, but he did, you know, a little feeling around in, in the old ovary area. And he referred me straight on to, get an ultrasound. 

 So within two weeks I was in the hospital [00:06:00] having my left ovary removed 

and I'm really fortunate. Because I signed a waiver that said they could basically take out both ovaries, like, and probably do a full hysterectomy if it came to it. And I was 21 and I didn't really understand how that would affect me at the time. Like I was not thinking about the future, but luckily, so I had this large dermoid cyst removed. 

It was, not by,laparoscopic or anything like that, like they tend to do now. It was, I had a big, belly button to, bikini line incision. and they left the fallopian tube, which is an interesting decision to me, but they thought it was the best decision. And I got, I got better. 

I recovered, they put me on birth control. I hadn't been on birth control before to sort of regulate, my menstrual cycles, which I believe were pretty irregular, but that's what they do with people generally, you know, as a first [00:07:00] line of defense against, polycystic ovaries syndrome. 

And, and then I was fine. There, there weren't any issues. and I had an idea in my head that, my one ovary wasn't sufficient. To, you know, have a child. but I did have a child and, she's awesome. She's 23. and so that was, it w it was like a really, I don't know, I feel like it was physically very traumatic, but I wasn't processing it as such at the time. 

 and then I just moved on. So I believe, you know, like, even though I had plenty of eggs to conceive, I assume that, you know, my right ovary just finally was like, okay, we're done. 

Dawn: And it was at a younger age.  

Bree: Hmm. They didn't have any conversation with you that you remember about fertility, about what it meant to have one ovary. Was there any [00:08:00] discussion about that?  

Dawn: There was no conversation.  

But I am pretty sure. Like, I mean, I found even, you know, admitting to my doctor that I was having sex and, you know, very embarrassing and it was clearly obvious that I was. because I had been in for other, you know, for other issues, you know, I had, some HPV, when I was maybe 19 or 20 and, was treated for that.  

Bree: Does, you know, even saying I was embarrassed to tell my doctor that I was having sex, embarrassed to have that discussion. 

It really does bring up, you know, that kind of shame and embarrassment around sex, sexual activity. Is is pervasive. It's it's, it's, it's real and it's pervasive and it's the very thing that we need to not be ashamed of so that we can be,honest [00:09:00] with our medical care providers and with the people in our lives and with ourselves too, you know, that, yeah,  

Dawn: so that's. 

Yeah. And my mom, my mom was a feminist. I, I, she worked professionally and she did a lot of things professionally. We had the sex talk when I was maybe eight or nine, because I would, as soon as she got home from the grocery store with her women's magazines, women's day and family circle, I would snatch them away and read them cover to cover. 

So I was reading stories about people, you know, teen pregnancies and, and a man with prostate cancer. And there was the phrase making love. And, and so she needed to have the sex talk with me and, you know, she explained, and I was skeptical. I was like, I don't think so. but I had to take her word for it and that and fourth grade health class. We talked about things, but she [00:10:00] was a feminist in her work life and in social issues and equality and, and that type of thing. But in terms of educating me and I assume my sisters about sexuality that did not happen. I was given advice as maybe a 17 or 18 year old to be careful. 

which didn't mean anything to me and. How I learned about sex was reading books about troubled teens and, the clan of the cave bear. That is some steamy. That is some steamy material. That's how I learned about, about like oral sex and anything about sex being pleasurable  

Bree: I think a lot of us, gen X women, that, that was our first, exposure to , very graphic descriptions of sex. I do remember reading clan at the Cape bear [00:11:00] like three times in one summer when I was  

Dawn: oh yeah. 

And I, you know, I don't know that my mom had read it, but again, swiped from the nightside table. She did not buy it for me. I, If my dad had known, Ooh, that would have been, that would have been troubled because -- he wanted kids to be kids. children didn't have much agency in his world. And so I remember being 17 and him telling me I couldn't watch an officer and a gentleman and I guess, you know, I didn't perceive it at the time, but I lived in, in what was a sexually conservative home. 

Bree: Yeah. Yeah. As did many of us, right. And Buffalo, New York. So it's the Northeast. I have another guest on Kira Hauer and we were talking about the, the puritanical, east coast views on. Sexuality and you are certainly [00:12:00] right in it, and I'm imagining then that you heard nothing from your family about menopause or perimenopause. 

If you got so little information about sex.  

Dawn: No, no, but, but I will tell you that my aunt, my mom has, has, well she's passed now, but, and I, my not my mom,  

my mom is alive and my mom's identical twin past. 

three or maybe four years ago, I have like that COVID gap of how many years has it been? but she came to Buffalo during that time when I had the surgery and I'm trying to think it was 1989 or 1990. but she was the executive director of planned parenthood of Buffalo. 

 and so she was really into teachable moments and we would have these [00:13:00] family dinners and, she, you know, would somehow wedge in a teachable moment about sexuality. 

Dawn: And, and my mom would, would Carolyn you know, like it was interesting how they had completely different approaches, you know, in terms of being open and honest about sexuality. And I think for me that really, even though I was still had a very hard time communicating for me, that was, an opening a way for me to see that people didn't necessarily have to be ashamed. 

I was, I still was. And I knew that, that not everybody was so, so maybe that was a goal to work toward.  

Bree: Yeah, shame, shame. It's so interesting when you have that [00:14:00] realization, that shame is in many ways selective. This is part of my work, right. 

 My company is the lovely unbecoming and it's about deconditioning. How do we unbecome so that we can become, right? How do we unbecome so that we can, move forward with integrity and free of shame. And I think that that is what you're describing. There is such a, it's like a true coming of age, right? 

When, when you begin to realize that the shame that felt like it was so. Part of you that it was a part of everyone that it was just the way life was suddenly you realize, oh no, this is actually a cultural issue. Even if you don't quite grasp that, just, just grasping, oh, not everyone feels this. They're doing the same things that they're doing. Things that I [00:15:00] would find shameful in myself, but they're not shameful. And it's exciting and scary to find that. So what a time, what a time. So let's fast forward now. Let's fast forward ,  

Dawn: yeah.  

Bree: I do think that many of us as we go through perimenopause and menopause, It's one of two things either, and this is me reducing it. 

Of course. To two things, because we still seek the binary, another conditioning. but, but let's say, let's say there are many ways, here are two things that I've seen in people who are going through perimenopause and menopause. Number one is that their experience of perimenopause and menopause almost mirrors in inverse their experience of puberty. 

So that the shame, the frustration, the,[00:16:00] despair, the loneliness, the whatever issues came up, or if they had a really great, I don't know anyone who had a really great puberty experience, but I'm assuming that it could happen that way too, that they're sort of a mirror that. Sort of repeat that process only it's it's for many people scarier because there's also this cultural loss of purpose issue that comes up for a lot of women. 

And on the other side of that is this, this other approach, and this is what we want, right? This is what we want for, for more people who are going through menopause to experience, which is I can take ownership of this experience and have an understanding of it that I did not have in puberty. 

And I can move forward, armed with this information and community and [00:17:00] support and have a perimenopause that is much more on my own terms. So I'm seeing both of those, I don't know many people who have had the second one, but I am finding more of them as I interview people, which is exciting. 

And I'm wondering what was your experience?  

Dawn: Hmm. Well, okay. In terms of the, in terms of the dyad, puberty was not fun but, perimenopause. So I will say right now I am a proud crone. And when you look at the, you know, the maiden, the mother and the crone, yeah, there is a lot of fear around that transition. And I, I remember before I sort of knew I was in that transition. 

I was, doing a show. . So the person who was choreographing and I actually, before this looked up her age, she's about eight years older than I am. 

 But she was speaking about her hot [00:18:00] flashes. And how intense they were. And like, she would have them, well, you know, during a rehearsal and she'd be like, oh, I just want to go into a freezer right now. And, I'm like, huh. Wow. That's, that's interesting. 

But for me, I didn't have a whole lot of super obvious signs clinically. Like I still was having fairly regular menstrual cycles. but I did start gaining weight in a situation where maybe I wouldn't have necessarily been gaining weight in terms of my physical activity. 

I would go to the doctor and, and think, am I losing hair? 

, I'm depressed. Is there something wrong with my thyroid? My thyroid tests came back in the normal range. Now they were only testing, for the T4 and TSH, they weren't doing the full panel. So whether it was hypo or not is still a question mark. because [00:19:00] doctors really don't want to necessarily do a full panelunless 

they see a very clear reason to, or you have good insurance. is, is what I've is what I have found. And so I would go in and say, I'm gaining weight. And they would focus on the depression aspect of it and they wanted to send me to the therapist. 

So I went to the therapist and I tried to be game about it, but that wasn't necessarily, that wasn't necessarily the issue at hand. what did happen, which could have been a big, big signifier, however, it wasn't super, I was very busy at the time I was, I was managing a luxury country in, I I'm a hospitality veteran, or as I like to say a recovering hospitality specialist. 

And so it was a luxury country in, I was managing that. I was [00:20:00] managing the fine dining restaurant attached to it. I was in charge of operations in charge of staffing. I, it was, I loved parts of my job and it was completely overwhelming because I was probably doing the work of at least two, if not three people. 

 but I did manage to forge a relationship with somebody and, a long distance relationship and he came to visit and we had sex and a few weeks later, I was like, huh, I'm late. And was like, wow, my breast feel big. My feet feel big. 

Dawn: And for me, that's the first sign of pregnancy. My feet don't feel right in my shoes. And like, you know, lateness can be a matter, of a few days, but I was like, no, this isn't right. And so I would go take the test, but like my hormones weren't high enough, to [00:21:00] detect pregnancy tests, you know? 

And I was going to the doctor after taking the home tests cause I was like, oh yeah. So finally, and I was 44, almost 45 and I'm thinking, wow, what am I going to do? This is, this is. A tough situation for somebody at my age. And also looking at the prospect. I had a daughter who was almost 17 and I'm like, I'm going to start over again now, you know, and feeling pretty wiped out from being a single parent. 

 But again, I was having all the side effects of pregnancy, but the hormone levels weren't showing up. So I go to a lab to get a blood test and yeah, sure enough, I was pregnant, but the next day I miscarried and, that was it. Wasn't hard, you know, like it wasn't emotionally hard for me because I had a lot of uncertainty, you know, me and, I'm still friends with this guy, but it [00:22:00] was a long distance relationship. 

I don't think either of us were all in. And, he wasn't interested in being a father. I did share it with him and he, he was like, I have never, in my 53 years had a pregnancy scare. And I remember I told him right before, like scare of course, you know, nice loaded term. 

Bree: He had never had a pregnancy scare, but I guarantee you that his partners did, I guarantee you and that as we're, we're also talking, Dawn and I are talking today is December 2nd. And I just think,it's important to, to point out that it's also the week that the Supreme court is re-examining abortion laws. 

 And we won't get into that right now, but I just have to say that anytime that we are talking about anything with sexuality, we [00:23:00] keep coming up against. The way that the medical field, the laws, and even just the sense of personal responsibility are, skewed in a way that really benefits men that really benefits men and, and your sexual partners response is a perfect example of that. 

Right? That in 53 years, he had never had a pregnancy scare when I am certain, certain, certain, certain that you are not the first person to have a pregnancy scare.  

Dawn: Right. Right. And, and just even the term, I was like, but it's not even your body. How, how scared can you be? But the point was he had never, ever, ever intended to be a dad. 

. So anyhow, I have this miscarriage and that's really when those, you know, symptoms. Kicked [00:24:00] into gear where like I, and, and I think that my hormones at that point, my hormones were just like, we've had enough. 

You know, like we can't do this every month. I was still having regular cycles. but I was just, you know, feeling off. 

And I had some life circumstances that would also caused me like some really stressful things happening in the background. So it was hard to tease out what was stress-related, what was, physical, you know, bodied, bodily changes related. And I think that's true for a lot of people. I was a little more. 

Aware, and this is where, you know, we can touch on herbalism. I had started my herbal studies in 2007. So we were pretty accustomed to talking about bodies about women's [00:25:00] bodies, about, you know, like there's a lot of talk about yonis which I don't know, if it's a culturally appropriate term for, me, a white woman to use, however, there, you know, that that's the way of some of those healing communities. 

So, I, I wasn't shy necessarily about talking about it, but I still didn't have really a full picture that. I was in perimenopause. and one of the , pre-menstrual symptoms, I would always have was like, it was not necessarily depression. I would have random and it wasn't random, but it felt like random suicidal ideation the day before I would start my cycle. 

And it would just mess with my mind every single month it was like, [00:26:00] why do I feel this way? And then, oh yeah, got it. and then I generally, didn't have really difficult moods beyond. The first day or so, you know, by day two, I was pretty, I was pretty elated. 

So you could see, you know, like that my, my hormones were maybe moving a little more rapidly. maybe they were, there were more in my system. and I'm not, and you know, maybe it was because this one ovary was working so hard to compensate. and it was signaling to my brain that it had to compensate for my leftover and not being there. 

I mean, obviously I, I can't see or can't tell what that process was. Those are, those are my theories about. it. 

Bree: One of the things that I have learned in these many discussions about perimenopause and menopause is that I [00:27:00] had this understanding of menopause, which was a flawed understanding. 

It was, it was wrong. So I'm just saying this, this was wrong. which was that hormones, which just sort of gradually decrease until I didn't have periods anymore. That's what I thought would happen. And, what seems to happen with a lot of people who have, or have had ovaries is that they have exactly what you were experiencing, extreme spikes and dips these, these fluctuations that are marked fluctuations. 

, and that you can actually have an intensification of, of hormone saturation as well as a depletion. Right. So, and, pre-menstrual period is a time when those spikes already happen. And then during perimenopause, they can become even more extreme. 

So just reflecting as a [00:28:00] non medical practitioner, just enough to get myself into trouble. That seems to be something that , the people who are talking about it, talk about those kinds of, fluctuations happening.  

Dawn: Yes. So anyhow, going back, like I, I moved to Charlottesville at the end of 2016, beginning of 2017. 

 and I took a hospitality job at a new place that was opening and it opened in July and. We went through our little training and then during the grand opening, they of course had a lot of staff. So I remember being there and having a hot flash and I was just, I was standing there because it was pretty intense, my whole face just, felt flushed and I just felt my whole body felt hot and then it stopped. 

And I recognize, I was like, oh, that's a hot flash. Okay. And it [00:29:00] was summertime, so who knows, but I feel like I had them for about, I don't know, six weeks. And my last menstrual cycle, I believe was that July. And I think it was fairly normal. I, and then I didn't have one in August of 2017 and I'm like, Okay. Well, we'll see, because I know a lot of people who would go, you know, three or four months without a cycle, and then they would experience fairly extreme menstrual flooding. And so as an herbalist, I was ready. You know, I knew what I was going to do with herbs and, and, you know, the, the plan that I had, but that didn't happen. 

It, you know, like I just, my cycle stopped and every month I'd be like, Hmm, one month closer to the year. I'm one month closer to the year. And I, I [00:30:00] wasn't necessarily having an easy time in my life. And yet at the same time, I was pretty, I was pretty pumped because I was not having, I didn't have to worry so much about the idiation. 

That was like, every month and pretty debilitating because what happens with, with suicidal ideation is that it's traumatic and that can feed into PTSD. And I know that that is another subject that you are familiar with and are very, you know,  

Bree: tapped into it. 

Dawn: You understand? But when I first came to that understanding, that was a big relief, and that was years before, I read something about PTSD and realize. Whatever I was feeling on a monthly basis was really feeding into that PTSD. And that maybe there was a [00:31:00] way to get out of having these PTSD symptoms and that there were ways to reduce them. 

And, part of reducing symptoms is understanding them and understanding why they're happening because when something is happening, that there's no paradigm for explanation where it doesn't make sense. It, I think societaly, it tends to be interpreted as a moral failing. The, you know, like, I, I don't know if it's, if it's, the Judeo-Christian,punishing God type of thing. 

you know, the prosperity gospel, all those types of things. When, when we feel bad, when we're unwell, we're doing something wrong that, that sort of, that sort of, I believe the prevalent thinking. And I mean, if you go into a medical office, of course, that, you know, and you're gaining [00:32:00] weight, well, there must be something wrong with your mind, or you're not getting enough exercise, or you're doing this, or you're doing that and you need to do this, not feeling well isn't met with nurturing in our society. It is met with a to-do list. And it just, that that brings tears to my eyes because. It is such it's so mean it's it's unkind. So anyhow, I was, I went through, the next year and I was, feeling pretty okay about approaching crone hood. And I have a, I have a friend who, has a red tent community. And I think it was, it was that June. I went up for solstice  

Bree: . Can you tell us more about what a red tent society is?  

Dawn: Okay. So, and I am going to first preface it with that. It tends to be that a lot of red tent societies tend to be very gender [00:33:00] binary. 

So while they are helpful, they also can be not inclusive. So, the red tent is the place where women go and gather, or a red tent is a refuge for the woman who is in her menstrual cycle. And, it is a place where there there's nurturing care for the woman who does have energy depletion because, they are doing a lot of work, to, to shed the lining of their uterus and to, you know, come back again. 

I mean, it's, it's not easy to do. And, and I think we take it for granted. So, so please, excuse the fact that I am speaking in gender binary because not all people with uteruses and ovaries are women or identify as women. And [00:34:00] so, my friend actually had a little red tent and she would invite people for seasonal gatherings. 

 I was there presenting and it was, it was the solstice in 2018. I just remember saying I'm almost to crone. Whew. You know, I was excited about it and not that I, didn't, not that I don't love being a mother or being in that phase. 

but I was ready. I was ready. and there's some things I wasn't ready for. I, you know, feel that, I don't know if it's hormone levels or whatever it is, you know, that people can detect people. Detect pheromones were very sensitive. Our, our noses are sensitive, but we don't process it as such. but the invisibility of a woman who has passed her reproductive age, whom that is, that has been a tough one for me. feeling invisible. And I think that, you know, existed [00:35:00] before and it intensified. and, you know, a certain sense of, age-ism, and, and then I also deal with other things. the genetic disorder I have has been more prevalent in my life than being post-menopausal.  

Bree: Right. We haven't really talked about the genetic disorder that you have yet, but do you feel that, you know, for some people who have pre-existing illnesses or diseases or conditions, perimenopause is often a time of exacerbation of symptoms or, or the way it's showing up and menopause can either be an exacerbation or a relief from those symptoms. And for some people it doesn't really change much at all. 

 Why don't you tell us a little bit about your preexisting condition and how this [00:36:00] phase in life has impacted that,  

Dawn: right? 

So it is called, the genetic disorder is called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. And, for anybody who's listening, it's E H L E R S dash D a N L O S. And it is a genetic disorder. that affects the way the body produces collagen. And there it's considered a connective tissue disorder. Collagen is the most abundant protein in the body. 

So it's everywhere. joints, bones, ligaments that hold your uterus up, eyes, teeth, brain veins, arteries, , and, there are different kinds. The most common kind is hyper mobile or H EDS. 

And then there are a lot of less common kinds. the manifestations are very, very broad. Ehlers Danlos is also related to co-occurring conditions, [00:37:00] which include dysautonomia often pots and dysautonomia is where the autonomic nervous system of the body, the, the part of the body that's supposed to be on autopilot isn't. 

And that can result in. A lot of different things. Let's just say anything that you think should be going without you thinking about it happening without you thinking about it. Heart rate, blood pressure, breathing that can all be compromised by dysautonomia. And it's such a big topic that I really don't want to go too far into it. 

but, one of the most common kinds in people with EDS is called pots or postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome, which means sitting down you're normal and stand up and the heart rate spikes very, very significantly. And that can, that's [00:38:00] hard. That's hard on the cardiovascular system. It can create a cascade effect. 

Dawn: And then there's also mast cell activation disorder as another part of what they call the triple. So I've experienced all of those.  

And, I'm fortunate in that I function most of the time, pretty normally, but I can have flares. And I believe that the flares have been related to hormonal shifts in my life. So puberty, I, as I was approaching puberty, I remember, having my shoulder randomly collapsed while I was doing a handstand, that was not fun. because I crashed down on my head, having my ankle collapsed out of nowhere, that happened when I was 12. And you know, that's right when I was in the thick of puberty, migraines, migraines throughout my life. 

And then when I, and I had very, very early onset varicose veins as [00:39:00] well. And that pretty much started right when I got to puberty, which is when you've got, you know, more of those relaxing hormones coming into your body. things that, that help help stretch out, which are, which are good, they're functional. 

But in my case, they created some issues, some real bad issues. And then of course, when I was pregnant my veins were exacerbated, And the whole story of how I came to herbalism was because an herbalist saved my pregnancy because I was having some significant problems. And, the medical community kind of gave me the shrug. 

And, my husband at the time was seeing this Chinese doctor So I went with my husband to an appointment and Dr. Shu listened to my pulses and he said, I'll give you a strong baby. And his wife was the apothecary and she mixed up some godawful herbs. I cannot even tell you how bad they tasted. 

And yet my symptoms, my, my [00:40:00] hemorrhaging, cause I was like hemorrhaging, ER, style hemorrhaging. I had been to the ER three times, within like, I'd say a week to 10 days, the hemorrhaging had stopped. 

 And my baby was just term . 

But I do feel like. I had an exacerbation of symptoms during that time, in terms of my genetics. And I feel that also during the perimenopause, I was having additional symptoms of Ehlers Danlos, and I had been diagnosed in 2013, but I was really intent on managing it by myself and kind of pushing my way through, because I was still in hospitality, you know, like in hospitality, you're tough. 

You don't want to show too many weaknesses. So I would literally, I, this is not even joking. I would work until I couldn't walk. I would hobble out to my car. and so, so I beat myself up. I beat myself up a lot. [00:41:00] And one of the things that happened after I stopped menstruating, I realized that was my last official job in hospitality. 

that I was not going to work. And that's why I call myself a recovering hospitality specialist, because you know, I enjoyed interacting with guests. 

Dawn: I loved my guests. I loved, exceeding their expectations. so I decided that I needed to go all in on herbalist. Because there's a different form of guest and there's different ways of exceeding expectation and taking care of people, 

and I could take that nurturing, you know, mothering side of myself and, and put it into something that actually would have a more significant impact. so that's really, for me, for me menopause, I wouldn't say, it's always a walk in the park. It's been a [00:42:00] relief. I don't have migraines. 

Dawn: I don't, you know, I don't have those super intense mood swings, not to say, I don't feel like, you know, anxious or depressed some of the times. 

Because, I mean, we live in this world,  

Bree: right. But you're not having the hormonal fluctuations that seem to drive the extremes of that. 

. So what is one thing as an herbalist? What is one thing that you think that people who are going through perimenopause should know or do 

Dawn: well? One thing that's a tough question. I would say this, this is my one thing. So 

 I think herbs are great. And I could talk about so many herbs that are pertinent to the, to the reproductive system. And, that wouldn't do anybody [00:43:00] a lot of good because everybody is constitutionally specific. And while there are some, some herbs that I absolutely love, like, let's say, holy basil, or Tulsi. 

I am not going to make a blanket statement and say that everyone listening to this right now should go out and get some holy basil. but it is generally considered safe and it is an adaptogen and it has so many wonderful benefits. It's, it's relaxing it, you know, it, it's such a gentle, beautiful herb. 

However, A lot of the herbs that are traditionally used in teas and potions, the mineralized herbs, nettles, say red Clover, which is mildly estrogenic. So, everyone, you know, again, these are not recommendations, but things that women often use are high in minerals. And I would say that it is really good to protect your bones because, at this [00:44:00] time this is where this is where there are so many shifts and, and like your system pulls the minerals from your bones to compensate for other systems. 

So my, my personal regimen involves, taking magnesium. Which is I, can I take a liquid magnesium, but I actually take a homeopathic magnesium. And that is protective to my cardiovascular system. Personally, it is protective to my cardiovascular system. It's also been said that it helps with the metabolism and accessibility of vitamin D and those, those are such big things. 

So what this all leads to is when. We have a lot of estrogen in our body and estrogen is stored in our fatty tissues, right. And it is what moistens us and makes us kind of juicy. And that's good for the most part. 

people can [00:45:00] have too much, too much juiciness, you know, and that, and that, leads to things like edema and so on and so forth. That's a different issue. at the time when estrogens stops being circulated in our body, are people, women, people with uteruses and ovaries their systems go, oh no. How are we going to keep our estrogen in our body? 

Dawn: Let's put some more fat on. So there's more places to store that estrogen. And so, you know, for anybody who is experiencing that perimenopause or menopausal weight gain, it is your body loving on you and saying, we want you to stay. We want to protect you because that juiciness, that moisture is protective. 

It's like, oh, like, like, you know, internal bubble wrap or something, but better than bubble wrap, that should be on product. And, and, so the post-menopausal woman [00:46:00] can be drier and more brittle. which, you know, of course that's why we hear about. The hip breaks and bone breaks and you know, all those types of the skin collagen, it's not in our skin. 

You know, hair gets dryer, every everything changes and it's seen as undesirable, but protecting it through moisturizing and not just external moisturizing, but internal moisturizing agents is probably my number one recommendation and keeping, keeping up on your minerals, vitamins are good, but, but definitely do not ignore the minerals. 

And, I'm not a nutritionist, but if, if there are issues, I would say go to a nutritionist and, and address that. And I will add one anecdote. I didn't realize I was magnesium deficient, until 2019. And I. ate every day of my [00:47:00] life for like several years and undignified amount of almonds and they probably didn't have very accessible magnesium, but I was desperate for it. 

I also could not get enough spinach, avocado or dark chocolate. Those all are rich in magnesium. And while I still love those things and I still will eat those things because they're delicious and wonderful. I don't have to have them. I do not need to eat eight ounces of almonds in a day. Once I started supplementing with magnesium, that craving diminished. And that tightness in my chest that I often felt. And I don't know if other, if other people feel it that diminished to a large extent. 

sometimes like taking a little dropper full of liquid magnesium when I'm feeling like I can't breathe [00:48:00] is one of the biggest chill pills I've ever taken in my life. Now, my Newseum may not be for everybody because it is relaxing and it can have effects on the digestive system. so I always say that caveat, but for me it was, it was a game changer. 

Bree: And also some, for some people having that relaxing effect on the digestive system can be helpful. To that could be something that can be helpful for us. And, and so I love that recommendation. Thank you so much for joining me on this for talking so openly and frankly, about your experiment experiment, it's always an experiment, right? 

Your experience with, with perimenopause and menopause, particularly, the mental health side of that and, and what you were experiencing there. because I, I truly believe that. Feeling less alone in the [00:49:00] processes is a major part of, of moving through it, in a supportive way. And that, that makes it easier. 

So thank you for that. And I will connect, I will put all of the links in the show notes for this, all of the links to all of your platforms and the show notes  

Dawn: for this. We're, we're just a wash and platforms, for sure. But yeah, this has been, this has been awesome. And like, I, I appreciate the opportunity to be authentic, you know, in this conversation because me as a 20 year old, I, this would have been a five minute conversation. 

Bree: And here we are, I'm sure I have full competence that we could talk all day. 

I  

Dawn: know, I know. Yeah. Like I'm, I'm like what they would refer to as a long talker, but that's, that's the, I think, you know, I've also got the perspective now to go with it, [00:50:00] so,  

Bree: well, thank you for the long talk.  

Dawn: Yeah. Thank you.  

Bree: Here are my key takeaways from my conversation with Dawn. Number one, our culture tends to look at illness as a moral failing, maybe now more than ever. And whether we are talking about the super problematic body mass index or our mental health, we need to change that perspective from the ground up. 

Number two, fluctuating hormones can coincide with flare ups for preexisting conditions. So be sure to talk to your healthcare provider about all of your symptoms, even if they don't feel relevant. 

Number three, While there's no one size fits all solution for women who are having side effects from the perimenopause mayhem, magnesium is a mineral that can bring a lot of women greater ease and calm and full disclosure. 

Magnesium was a total game changer for me when I was suffering from [00:51:00] insomnia. Find out more about Dawn, including where to take her workshops and classes on urbalism in the show notes.