It's never too late to learn: A journey to redefine love and success after 50

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The things I learned, it changed me.

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No, no, it didn't change me. It brought me

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out of myself. It freed me

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in a way that I'm comfortable in my own

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skin. And I, you know, I didn't

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know that I wasn't. I didn't know that I was afraid

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of my own shadow for a long time.

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Welcome to pause to go, the podcast that's all about

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making the most of life's transitions from middle school through

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menopause. I'm your host, Brie Luck,

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joining you as we embark on a journey of self discovery and

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questionable decisions. Get ready for heartfelt

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conversations, expert insights, and personal stories

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that'll have you laughing, crying, and saying, thank

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goodness I'm not alone. If you've lost your

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midlife cris survival. Kit, we've got you

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covered. So join me, won't you? And together

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we can pause to go.

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Welcome to another episode of pause to go. I am your host,

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Bree luck, and today we are honored to have with

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us Dr. Kathy Ames Turner.

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You are going to love Dr. Kathy. She is

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a pastor, a coach, a mama, an Oma,

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and a scholar who earned her doctorate in her

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60s. We talk about everything about

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life from puberty through menopause in this episode. And I'm

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so grateful for this chat for many reasons, but especially

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because BIPOC Americans, we know,

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have more disruptive, perimenopausal, and menopausal

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symptoms and get less support from their medical providers than white

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women who are going through the change. In short,

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black women are hurting more and getting helped

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less. And we need to change that as a culture.

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And one way to make that change is to

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talk about it. And that's exactly what we do in this

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episode. But we talk about more than hot flashes. We

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also talk about larger life issues, like what it was like

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for Dr. Kathy to get her undergraduate degree in her fifty s

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and her PhD in her sixty s. And then we're

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getting into the nitty gritty of love and marriage with

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Kathy's transition from unhealthy past

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relationships to a loving, communicative

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partnership with her husband, Tony, and how it influenced her

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growth as a person and a professional.

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So let's delve into a conversation

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about life, assignments, childhood dreams,

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and the power of stepping into your fullest self

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at any age. Kathy, I love that I get to call you Dr. Cat

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now. Can I just call you, even though I've called you

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Kathy for years? Can I call you Dr. Cat? Sure.

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Does it feel?

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Does it does. I'm still getting used to

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it. How long ago. Did you finish your graduate program?

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I turned in the final, final

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dissertation April of last year. I actually

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had the opportunity to go across the stage January

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of last year. It was amazing. Fielding

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is graduate university for older

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adults, and it's a hybrid

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program. And so most of my interactions

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with people that I met was mostly online.

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Once or twice a year, we'd see each other, but I actually met people

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at graduation that I had been online with for,

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like, six years. And

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we've cried together. We've edited each other's work

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and finally got to hug each other, which was

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major. It was major. One woman in particular.

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We've grown to be very close, and we had

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not ever met in person, but we felt like we knew each

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other. And then seeing each other was crazy,

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even with masks on, because we were masked up

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last January. Yeah, it was amazing. But, yeah, still getting

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used to people calling me doctor, whatever.

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Yeah. It's such a huge accomplishment at any

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age, but it's especially a huge

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accomplishment, I think, in midlife.

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I agree. To invest in yourself, to invest

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in your community in that way, to invest in your work

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in that way at that time is just

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admirable. And our brains are shifting also. So to put

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your brain through all of that

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is so good for you to do. And also a real

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challenge, I would imagine. Yeah. You know, it's

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interesting because I never really thought about

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the how or the what of it.

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Every time I tried to say, no, I'm not going to do this, I kept

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feeling in my heart, you need to do this. You need to do this. I

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started in

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January 2015, hadn't thought about

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anything having to do with hot flashes or

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sleeping. And I always joke

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with God. I said, look, if you had told me what this was going to

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require, it never would have happened. And I know

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that's why you didn't tell me, because.

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And it's interesting framing it the way you're

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framing it, right? Thinking about the time of life, I hadn't

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given it a thought, and thinking about it now, it's

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like, wow, that's pretty crazy. You

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say crazy, I say courageous. Okay. I like

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courageous. I like

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courageous. Yeah.

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So let's go back a little bit. How old are you and where are

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you in your menopause journey? Yeah, I am

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63. I'll be 64 in March next

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month. As far as my journey, that's an interesting

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question. I remember hot flashes starting when I was

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52. So eleven years ago, my

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grandmother passed a little bit ago, and

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she was, like, my best friend. She was 97.

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97. And yes. And she was still

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having night sweats because I

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remember like grandma, does this end?

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She's like, I don't think so, baby.

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And my mom is still

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experiencing night sweats and things like that and hot flashes. And

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my mother turned 83

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last fall. So, yeah. I

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don't know how to tell you where I am. I mean, I think about where

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my mom and my grandmother were in their journeys. I probably say

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I'm just getting started. Yeah.

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Wow. I was also very close to my

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grandmother. She passed away almost a year

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ago. And she, so

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I, yes. Something about those

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grand, I'm telling you. Yes. My goal is

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to be a grandmother like she

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was and maybe still is to me.

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Right. She passed on, but she's

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still there in me. Yes, but

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she said that she didn't even go through

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menopause until she had a

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hysterectomy when she was in her mid 90s. That's what she said.

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Of course she did. Of course she did. Her period

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stopped at some point. So the definition of menopause is

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actually the typical definition

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of menopause is that you've gone for twelve

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months, one year without menstruating. Okay.

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So the time leading up to that, when you have kind of an

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irregular period and mood swings

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or hot flashes for a lot of people, for many people,

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they experience them more in the time leading up to

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menopause, in the first year of menopause,

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but not everyone, clearly,

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but she was put on hormones in her

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40s. She was put on hormones

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for a number of different

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reasons. She was experiencing a number of different

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symptoms. So that really controlled

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her hormonal fluctuations and

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experience in a different way. And it's interesting

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because women of color

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are not diagnosed

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with hormonal imbalances

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in the same way that white women are in the United States

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and don't get the same kind of

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hormonal treatment. They're often told,

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tough up. You've got this, you can

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bear this.

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Anyway, when I hear about your mother and your

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grandmother having hot flashes for

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their entire postmenopausal lives,

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it really makes me think about that difference in

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medical treatment. Right. It's a

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problem teaching me something right now, honestly, because I

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didn't know. I actually had a conversation with a friend earlier

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this week who just did some hormonal, had a

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hormonal treatment. We didn't get into why.

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And she's a white woman, lives out on the west coast. And

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I had no idea that you're. Teaching

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me well,

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and that's why we're here. Right. We're here, not for me to teach you

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so much, because you're also teaching me, but

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to share. These are stories that women didn't talk.

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People with ovaries. I'm not just going to say women, because, of course, many people

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who go through menopause don't identify as women. And I would say an

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increasing number of people don't identify as women.

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I do. And I believe you do. I

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do. But we don't talk about it. And

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so how can we get consistent,

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quality care in our lives

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if we're not educated? So I just want to thank you for coming on to

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talk about your experience, because I think it's going to be really

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helpful for a lot of people. Now I know where

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you are in your journey.

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Can we go back, though? Because I really think for a lot of

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us, this started with puberty.

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Did you talk about puberty? What was it like for you when your

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period started? Do you remember that experience? You're shaking

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your head. I remember

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starting, and I would say I started early.

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Do you remember how old you were? I want to

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say I was ten.

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And I didn't.

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Wasn't a lot of education. It was just

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something you kind of dealt with. I

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remember having very, even

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young, very long cycles, menstrual cycles

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during the bleeding part, at least like five

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to seven days and sometimes longer. And compared to

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people who would tell me, oh, three days, and I'm like, what

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is that? And it seems

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like the older I got, the heavier they got and

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sometimes longer. Lasted longer. I became

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well acquainted with those overnight, huge overnight

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pads and I remember wearing tampex and

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those huge pads and still wasn't necessarily

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enough. And again, never talked about this with anyone. So

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this is a first. Thank you. Thank you for being willing

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to. Yeah, of course, cramps were

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ridiculous. And I had a cousin, I remember

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she would be in bed for two or three days with cramps. I wasn't

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that bad, thankfully. But again, who talked about.

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No one talked about it.

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So, yeah, puberty was interesting

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because I didn't really

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know all that was happening with my body. I

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knew literally what was happening. But

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as far as the changes that would take me into

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womanhood, that would take me into adulting and all that

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stuff, I didn't know any of that.

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Yeah.

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It sounds like that happened. That was reflected as you

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approached menopause, too. That that was similar,

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right? Absolutely. There's sort of that feeling of, on one hand, there's sort

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of. I find myself sometimes this sounds

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horrible, so I'm just going to put myself out there with this

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horrible thing that I'm about to say. Sometimes I see

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people on TikTok or

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reels or something, and they're talking about

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parenting. And I have that gut response, which I

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think is some kind of old response, like, it's not

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me. Right? It's a reaction to something. It's a

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cultural reaction. But I'll see a parent, and I will be like, do you

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feel like you're the first person who had a baby? That's the thought in my

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head. Right. My first thought is not always

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compassionate. My first thought is, get

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over it, okay? And then I come around

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to that compassionate place, and I

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think with puberty and

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menopause, it's kind of similar. Right. There

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was a long time sort of cultural attitude of,

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you just got to deal with it. That's your lot.

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And now the hope is that there's a

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movement towards, like, oh, I can actually get more

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support that I need in this time

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so that I can be my fullest self and do all

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the things that I need to do

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to live the life and to accomplish the things that I want

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to accomplish. So that was me

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showing that sometimes we have a less compassionate

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side for these natural life

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changes. I don't know if I would call

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it less compassionate as much

254
00:15:55,060 --> 00:15:58,480
as for me, it's like,

255
00:15:59,090 --> 00:16:02,494
things have changed so much, and now people are,

256
00:16:02,532 --> 00:16:06,338
like, in your face with everything, right? And as you

257
00:16:06,344 --> 00:16:09,954
were talking, you know that commercial where the woman is on the bus

258
00:16:10,072 --> 00:16:13,794
and she gets up and I think the tagline is,

259
00:16:13,832 --> 00:16:15,720
gushes happen. And

260
00:16:17,610 --> 00:16:21,254
I remember turning to my husband, I said, we're talking

261
00:16:21,292 --> 00:16:24,342
about these things now. It was on

262
00:16:24,396 --> 00:16:27,094
television. Right? So it's like

263
00:16:27,212 --> 00:16:31,002
commercials. Thank you. Thank you. For five

264
00:16:31,056 --> 00:16:32,940
year olds and three year olds. Just.

265
00:16:34,590 --> 00:16:38,042
I think it's more that people are

266
00:16:38,096 --> 00:16:41,886
just more transparent with it

267
00:16:41,908 --> 00:16:45,440
now because they're allowed to be. And

268
00:16:47,010 --> 00:16:50,574
if we had said any of these kinds of things when.

269
00:16:50,772 --> 00:16:53,586
I know when I was growing up, it would have been. I'd have gotten a

270
00:16:53,608 --> 00:16:56,580
look, like, straighten it up.

271
00:16:58,630 --> 00:17:01,220
We don't talk about those things. What?

272
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:06,550
Depending on the company I was in, I might have gotten smacked.

273
00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:10,310
Yeah. I wouldn't label it not being compassionate.

274
00:17:11,130 --> 00:17:14,822
It's a switch, and it's something for us to. It's like,

275
00:17:14,876 --> 00:17:18,140
whoa, what? You're saying these things in public now,

276
00:17:18,510 --> 00:17:22,026
and it's okay. I think that's what comes to

277
00:17:22,048 --> 00:17:25,820
me. Well, thank you. Yeah.

278
00:17:26,670 --> 00:17:30,300
We got to be kind to ourselves. We're learning and growing still.

279
00:17:31,810 --> 00:17:35,374
We are learning and growing. And you talking about that commercial, I know,

280
00:17:35,412 --> 00:17:38,320
that feeling. And then I also see

281
00:17:39,250 --> 00:17:42,510
in my own family. So I have two daughters

282
00:17:43,090 --> 00:17:46,158
and my husband, my poor husband,

283
00:17:46,254 --> 00:17:50,002
because I was very private about things. I mean, he's never seen

284
00:17:50,056 --> 00:17:53,890
me go to the bathroom or anything like that. You know what I mean?

285
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,640
We're very traditional, I guess, in that way.

286
00:17:58,250 --> 00:18:01,160
But I have two daughters, and I've tried

287
00:18:01,530 --> 00:18:03,880
to normalize all

288
00:18:04,650 --> 00:18:08,300
bodily transitions as much as I can.

289
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:12,586
And, man, does it get talked about in my household. So now my

290
00:18:12,608 --> 00:18:16,346
husband is very well versed in everything to do

291
00:18:16,368 --> 00:18:20,090
with periods, menopause, perimenopause,

292
00:18:20,530 --> 00:18:23,706
sex, all sorts of things. And it's

293
00:18:23,738 --> 00:18:27,102
fascinating. And my hope is that my

294
00:18:27,156 --> 00:18:30,778
kids don't have nearly the shame

295
00:18:30,954 --> 00:18:34,146
that also comes about from not talking

296
00:18:34,328 --> 00:18:38,046
about things, that they don't have shame

297
00:18:38,238 --> 00:18:41,442
if they leak. Right. Or they don't have

298
00:18:41,496 --> 00:18:45,334
shame as they start to age, because there's so much

299
00:18:45,372 --> 00:18:48,600
ageism, too. Yes.

300
00:18:49,690 --> 00:18:53,030
That's a whole other aspect that we

301
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,440
reach as we get to this phase in life.

302
00:18:56,970 --> 00:19:00,570
Yes. So, anyway, my hope is that by talking about

303
00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,474
it, that we open up our hearts to the

304
00:19:04,512 --> 00:19:08,314
full human experience, not necessarily that we gross people

305
00:19:08,352 --> 00:19:08,940
out.

306
00:19:11,650 --> 00:19:14,160
Understood. Yeah.

307
00:19:15,010 --> 00:19:18,654
So looking at that then and looking at

308
00:19:18,692 --> 00:19:22,502
your time now, now you're looking at it with a slightly different lens.

309
00:19:22,586 --> 00:19:24,660
Right? We're talking about it, yeah.

310
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:29,650
Have there been any surprises in

311
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,300
midlife for you? Anything that you

312
00:19:33,990 --> 00:19:35,220
didn't expect?

313
00:19:38,410 --> 00:19:41,960
Well, okay. I'm about to get real personal. Okay.

314
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:47,634
Yeah. My husband. I am on my third

315
00:19:47,692 --> 00:19:51,046
marriage. My first two marriages

316
00:19:51,158 --> 00:19:51,820
were

317
00:19:55,950 --> 00:19:59,222
just really mentally, emotionally, and physically

318
00:19:59,286 --> 00:20:02,670
dangerous situations. So when I

319
00:20:02,740 --> 00:20:06,030
met Tony, my husband,

320
00:20:06,370 --> 00:20:09,246
I tell people this is really the first time I've ever been married in my

321
00:20:09,268 --> 00:20:12,786
life, because it's a

322
00:20:12,808 --> 00:20:16,290
marriage, it's a partnership, it's a friendship,

323
00:20:16,870 --> 00:20:19,060
and I'm surprised at.

324
00:20:20,550 --> 00:20:24,146
It's like I felt like I was living for the first time

325
00:20:24,248 --> 00:20:27,782
in my true self, if that makes

326
00:20:27,836 --> 00:20:31,554
sense. I didn't have to walk on eggshells.

327
00:20:31,602 --> 00:20:34,918
I didn't have to be afraid because

328
00:20:35,004 --> 00:20:38,314
of. I didn't do this right, or I didn't say that

329
00:20:38,352 --> 00:20:40,300
right. One thing that

330
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:47,014
there's so much coming at me right now. My husband

331
00:20:47,062 --> 00:20:50,842
still tells me that I still sometimes live and think like a single

332
00:20:50,896 --> 00:20:54,606
mother. He goes to open the door for me, and I've already got my

333
00:20:54,628 --> 00:20:58,330
hand on it, those kinds of things. He's very traditional,

334
00:20:58,410 --> 00:21:02,222
and I love it. I absolutely love it. And I love

335
00:21:02,276 --> 00:21:05,426
being treated like a princess. And that was a

336
00:21:05,448 --> 00:21:09,154
surprise, to be able to experience that type

337
00:21:09,192 --> 00:21:12,962
of life. This is our 12th year

338
00:21:13,016 --> 00:21:16,694
together, and it gets better

339
00:21:16,732 --> 00:21:19,720
and better every day because he's my friend

340
00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:24,200
and we trust each other. We can talk about anything.

341
00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:28,060
And I've never had that experience in my life.

342
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:31,962
I've had, I can say, maybe three really close

343
00:21:32,016 --> 00:21:35,370
girlfriends in my life, and they know my life, period.

344
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:39,740
But a man, to be able to share

345
00:21:40,050 --> 00:21:43,806
everything, the good, the bad, the ugly, and to be

346
00:21:43,828 --> 00:21:47,470
able to build a life that is not

347
00:21:47,540 --> 00:21:50,746
something that I ever thought I'd

348
00:21:50,938 --> 00:21:54,606
experience, really. I spent most of my life

349
00:21:54,708 --> 00:21:58,302
in survival mode. I had a talk with my youngest

350
00:21:58,366 --> 00:22:02,206
about this about two summers ago. And now both my children, we've

351
00:22:02,238 --> 00:22:05,886
had this conversation, and they let me know, mom, you've raised us in survival

352
00:22:05,918 --> 00:22:09,714
mode, and I'm so grateful

353
00:22:09,762 --> 00:22:13,314
to be able to have those conversations with them because they're

354
00:22:13,362 --> 00:22:17,126
right. What would it have been like if I wasn't in survival mode? What would

355
00:22:17,148 --> 00:22:20,666
it have been like if I had peace of

356
00:22:20,688 --> 00:22:24,250
mind and was able to just enjoy them

357
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,154
and have them enjoy me? But we were definitely in

358
00:22:28,192 --> 00:22:31,902
survival mode, and I'm not like that

359
00:22:31,956 --> 00:22:35,678
anymore, and I'm learning how not to be that

360
00:22:35,764 --> 00:22:39,546
way anymore. I have conversations with my young adult.

361
00:22:39,658 --> 00:22:41,760
They're not even young adults. My son,

362
00:22:42,870 --> 00:22:46,642
who is 37 this

363
00:22:46,696 --> 00:22:49,762
year, and my youngest will be 29.

364
00:22:49,896 --> 00:22:53,220
And how did that happen

365
00:22:55,930 --> 00:22:59,654
exactly? But the joy of being able

366
00:22:59,692 --> 00:23:03,106
to talk to them, still give advice when it's

367
00:23:03,138 --> 00:23:06,870
solicited. But to be able to listen, to be able to really hear

368
00:23:06,940 --> 00:23:10,774
them, that's a surprise, too, I would

369
00:23:10,812 --> 00:23:13,800
say. The shift in the relationship.

370
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:18,006
There'll still times when they'll give me permission to be mom because that's who

371
00:23:18,028 --> 00:23:20,640
they need, you know, go.

372
00:23:22,370 --> 00:23:25,982
But for the most part, it's a joy to be able to

373
00:23:26,036 --> 00:23:29,854
listen to them and to be heard, to be able

374
00:23:29,892 --> 00:23:33,554
to, like, with my youngest, we have these conversations all the

375
00:23:33,592 --> 00:23:37,298
time where we're both like, man,

376
00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:41,102
seriously. And I'll be able to admit

377
00:23:41,246 --> 00:23:44,978
I messed that up royally. To be able to

378
00:23:44,984 --> 00:23:47,160
have those kinds of conversations is

379
00:23:49,610 --> 00:23:53,282
freeing. It's freeing. And to have those same kinds of conversations

380
00:23:53,346 --> 00:23:56,822
with my husband, to be able to be real, to be honest with

381
00:23:56,956 --> 00:24:00,362
people that I love, I would

382
00:24:00,416 --> 00:24:04,074
say in my life experience,

383
00:24:04,192 --> 00:24:07,974
that's been rare. One of the hats

384
00:24:08,022 --> 00:24:10,650
that I wear is the hat of a pastor.

385
00:24:11,170 --> 00:24:14,846
And people have expectations of how pastors are supposed

386
00:24:14,868 --> 00:24:18,014
to act, how they're supposed to live and present themselves.

387
00:24:18,132 --> 00:24:21,406
And I've found that people

388
00:24:21,588 --> 00:24:25,122
almost resent you when you are too

389
00:24:25,176 --> 00:24:28,482
real with them. So being able to

390
00:24:28,536 --> 00:24:32,020
have real conversations with my children

391
00:24:32,550 --> 00:24:36,322
and my husband and those handful

392
00:24:36,386 --> 00:24:40,134
of female friends who know me. They just know me

393
00:24:40,172 --> 00:24:43,640
inside out, and I know them. Outside of that.

394
00:24:44,250 --> 00:24:47,190
I find that I kind of play the role

395
00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:51,674
depending on the circumstance, but I try not to do

396
00:24:51,712 --> 00:24:55,514
that as much as possible. It just depends on what people

397
00:24:55,552 --> 00:24:59,386
are able to take. And that sounds kind of crazy,

398
00:24:59,488 --> 00:25:03,038
but it's not

399
00:25:03,124 --> 00:25:06,800
really, is it? Because I think we all do that from time to time.

400
00:25:08,210 --> 00:25:11,914
I think that if we are sensitive

401
00:25:11,962 --> 00:25:14,900
to the people around us, that

402
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:19,314
we naturally, and maybe especially

403
00:25:19,512 --> 00:25:23,186
as women who

404
00:25:23,288 --> 00:25:25,800
want to offer

405
00:25:27,130 --> 00:25:30,454
guidance, compassion, a soft place to

406
00:25:30,492 --> 00:25:34,082
land, nurturing direction

407
00:25:34,226 --> 00:25:37,946
to people in life, we're looking to

408
00:25:37,968 --> 00:25:41,260
see where they are. I think that's a sign of

409
00:25:42,510 --> 00:25:45,994
being sensitive to the people you're with, being

410
00:25:46,192 --> 00:25:50,006
empathetic to how they are coming into

411
00:25:50,048 --> 00:25:53,840
the space so that you can meet them where they are.

412
00:25:55,650 --> 00:25:59,310
The trick is, and it really sounds

413
00:25:59,380 --> 00:26:02,480
like you are finding it, which gives me hope,

414
00:26:02,870 --> 00:26:06,660
gives me hope for myself. The trick is,

415
00:26:07,510 --> 00:26:10,754
how can you see that? Honor the

416
00:26:10,792 --> 00:26:14,594
person and not lose yourself in

417
00:26:14,632 --> 00:26:18,278
the process? Not just give

418
00:26:18,364 --> 00:26:22,214
so much of yourself away or cover yourself up

419
00:26:22,252 --> 00:26:26,102
so much, or hide different components of you. How can you be your

420
00:26:26,156 --> 00:26:29,818
full self and present

421
00:26:29,904 --> 00:26:33,482
yourself in a way so that the person can receive what they need to

422
00:26:33,536 --> 00:26:37,322
receive? I don't know the answer to that.

423
00:26:37,456 --> 00:26:41,294
Do you? I don't. But the fact

424
00:26:41,332 --> 00:26:44,640
that you're able to articulate that in that way,

425
00:26:45,250 --> 00:26:47,840
that's gold right there, what you just said.

426
00:26:51,490 --> 00:26:54,594
And I think that's an important

427
00:26:54,792 --> 00:26:56,420
component of,

428
00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:02,978
I was going to say, being true to ourselves and growing up, but also

429
00:27:03,064 --> 00:27:06,646
self care. That big

430
00:27:06,668 --> 00:27:08,760
buzword that we're all hearing now.

431
00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:13,622
Yeah. Being sensitive to others and at the same time

432
00:27:13,676 --> 00:27:16,840
being who we are

433
00:27:17,870 --> 00:27:21,546
and not having to apologize or hide behind

434
00:27:21,728 --> 00:27:25,478
a mask, or forfeit

435
00:27:25,654 --> 00:27:29,242
who we are for the benefit of that other

436
00:27:29,296 --> 00:27:32,894
individual. I

437
00:27:32,932 --> 00:27:36,654
love that word. We don't want to

438
00:27:36,692 --> 00:27:40,480
forfeit who we are for the benefit of someone

439
00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:45,682
beautiful. So as you made

440
00:27:45,816 --> 00:27:49,300
those major relationship

441
00:27:49,670 --> 00:27:53,342
shifts, it sounds like beginning with meeting Tony

442
00:27:53,406 --> 00:27:55,640
and not just meeting Tony, but

443
00:27:56,650 --> 00:28:00,310
cultivating a relationship and then

444
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:03,846
cultivating a marriage with him. And

445
00:28:03,868 --> 00:28:07,254
then as that grew, that, then your relationship with your

446
00:28:07,292 --> 00:28:11,066
children started to shift, too, as you were getting out

447
00:28:11,088 --> 00:28:13,740
of survival mode. Right.

448
00:28:14,830 --> 00:28:18,342
What do you think the catalyst

449
00:28:18,406 --> 00:28:22,094
was, or the mindset shift? What happened that had

450
00:28:22,132 --> 00:28:25,520
you come together with Tony and be able to

451
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:29,598
receive? I'd say two things. One

452
00:28:29,684 --> 00:28:33,070
is being able to breathe.

453
00:28:33,670 --> 00:28:37,394
Being with Tony, I was able to breathe for the first time

454
00:28:37,432 --> 00:28:41,250
in a long time, I knew I was safe,

455
00:28:42,070 --> 00:28:45,918
which gave me freedom to explore other things, because I knew I didn't

456
00:28:45,934 --> 00:28:49,606
have to cover all the bases by myself. So that's the

457
00:28:49,628 --> 00:28:53,446
one thing. The second thing that comes to mind is going back to

458
00:28:53,468 --> 00:28:57,046
school. How old were you when you went back to school? I just say that

459
00:28:57,068 --> 00:29:00,874
because 50. It's really inspirational for people

460
00:29:00,912 --> 00:29:04,060
to hear 55.

461
00:29:04,910 --> 00:29:08,218
Look, let me back this up a little bit.

462
00:29:08,304 --> 00:29:12,014
I started undergraduate school right

463
00:29:12,052 --> 00:29:14,414
after I graduated from high school in

464
00:29:14,452 --> 00:29:16,960
1978,

465
00:29:18,050 --> 00:29:20,560
okay. And

466
00:29:21,570 --> 00:29:25,406
ended up. It didn't go well the first semester. I was

467
00:29:25,428 --> 00:29:29,042
just like, this isn't working. I don't know what I'm doing. I didn't have family

468
00:29:29,096 --> 00:29:32,690
support because I was the first one. First gen, that whole piece

469
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,374
right there. Although I had cousins who had gone and done very

470
00:29:36,412 --> 00:29:40,182
well. So I tried again the next fall. Ended up coming

471
00:29:40,236 --> 00:29:43,046
back to Charlottesville because I was born in

472
00:29:43,068 --> 00:29:46,854
Charlotesville and raised in Maryland. Came

473
00:29:46,892 --> 00:29:50,394
back here to UVA, did my first two

474
00:29:50,432 --> 00:29:54,266
years at UVA. And once upon a time, in

475
00:29:54,288 --> 00:29:57,882
those days, if you weren't pre

476
00:29:57,936 --> 00:30:01,498
calm or some pre something,

477
00:30:01,664 --> 00:30:05,162
right? If you stayed in the college, there was this big

478
00:30:05,216 --> 00:30:08,798
joke, know, you staying in the college,

479
00:30:08,884 --> 00:30:12,560
you weren't smart enough or you weren't this, that, or the other.

480
00:30:13,270 --> 00:30:16,820
So I tried to get into school,

481
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:20,802
and I was not accepted. And instead

482
00:30:20,936 --> 00:30:24,050
of recognizing that the college was a

483
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,980
perfectly legitimate option,

484
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:32,950
I left. I left UVA,

485
00:30:33,690 --> 00:30:36,600
transferred to University of Maryland, hated it.

486
00:30:39,370 --> 00:30:43,066
Because even in the days when I was at UVA, even though there

487
00:30:43,088 --> 00:30:46,778
was a lot of racial tension, a lot of crazy stuff

488
00:30:46,864 --> 00:30:50,286
still happening because of 79 at that

489
00:30:50,308 --> 00:30:54,126
point, and I was three classes away from the

490
00:30:54,148 --> 00:30:57,694
women just being admitted. Had no idea about any of that

491
00:30:57,812 --> 00:31:00,800
until 20 years ago

492
00:31:05,270 --> 00:31:08,898
at UVA, first day of class, professor gave you

493
00:31:08,984 --> 00:31:11,860
name, number, and address,

494
00:31:12,550 --> 00:31:16,390
right? Very personable class ratio, 15

495
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:19,846
to one, maybe 17 to one. But small,

496
00:31:20,028 --> 00:31:23,778
intimate. You got to know your professors and you didn't

497
00:31:23,794 --> 00:31:27,298
call them. Dr. Whoever you called them, john, you called them

498
00:31:27,484 --> 00:31:31,114
by their first name. And so going to

499
00:31:31,152 --> 00:31:34,922
Maryland, the ratio was like 250

500
00:31:34,976 --> 00:31:38,140
to one. And you were known by

501
00:31:39,470 --> 00:31:43,166
your social number, right. Nobody knew your name. The

502
00:31:43,188 --> 00:31:46,586
culture. It was a culture shock. Getting to UVA was a culture

503
00:31:46,618 --> 00:31:50,346
shock. Going to Maryland was yet even another culture

504
00:31:50,378 --> 00:31:53,860
shock. So, long story short, I dropped out, right?

505
00:31:54,230 --> 00:31:57,874
First child born when I was 26, 2nd child

506
00:31:57,912 --> 00:32:01,634
born when I was 35. I didn't finish my

507
00:32:01,672 --> 00:32:05,140
undergraduate degree until I was 52.

508
00:32:06,070 --> 00:32:09,846
Good for you for doing it. I

509
00:32:09,868 --> 00:32:13,622
was determined. I was like, I started this, and I was all along taking

510
00:32:13,676 --> 00:32:17,366
classes online and taking classes, and finally I was

511
00:32:17,388 --> 00:32:20,986
like, I got to finish this. So I finished. And then

512
00:32:21,088 --> 00:32:24,554
at 55, I went back to get my

513
00:32:24,592 --> 00:32:27,942
master's. It was a master's PhD

514
00:32:28,006 --> 00:32:31,614
program. Can you tell us what your master's PhD program

515
00:32:31,812 --> 00:32:35,566
was in? Sure. I earned a

516
00:32:35,588 --> 00:32:39,338
master's in human development, and my doctorate

517
00:32:39,514 --> 00:32:42,880
is in organizational development and change.

518
00:32:43,270 --> 00:32:46,770
And my dissertation leans more

519
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,780
towards human development. I

520
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:54,034
posed the question, what are the experiences of

521
00:32:54,072 --> 00:32:57,906
formerly incarcerated african american men as they reintegrate

522
00:32:57,938 --> 00:33:01,240
with their family and community and

523
00:33:01,850 --> 00:33:05,654
that education? Just

524
00:33:05,852 --> 00:33:08,140
going back to school,

525
00:33:09,310 --> 00:33:13,114
Brie, when I tell you I learned more

526
00:33:13,152 --> 00:33:16,874
about myself in those classes, when I

527
00:33:16,912 --> 00:33:20,654
learned more about my history as a

528
00:33:20,692 --> 00:33:24,400
black woman, when I learned more about our country,

529
00:33:25,810 --> 00:33:29,390
I got mad. I got angry.

530
00:33:32,630 --> 00:33:36,050
And then there are things I learned about communication and human

531
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,746
development and how brains change over time

532
00:33:39,848 --> 00:33:43,300
and family systems and all of these things.

533
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:47,494
And I think that in and of itself really began to change. How

534
00:33:47,532 --> 00:33:51,382
I saw my family, how I saw the people

535
00:33:51,436 --> 00:33:54,600
around me, how I began to

536
00:33:55,610 --> 00:33:58,220
live in that space,

537
00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:01,900
but with a different understanding of why

538
00:34:02,350 --> 00:34:05,754
sometimes things go the way they go and why we

539
00:34:05,792 --> 00:34:09,594
respond and how we respond. The books. I love

540
00:34:09,632 --> 00:34:13,374
books. I've always loved books. My father, my

541
00:34:13,412 --> 00:34:16,830
biological father, I had two fathers.

542
00:34:19,330 --> 00:34:22,782
I was loved by both, and I

543
00:34:22,836 --> 00:34:26,526
loved them both. I recognize fully

544
00:34:26,558 --> 00:34:30,306
that there are some people that don't have one that they can say loved them,

545
00:34:30,328 --> 00:34:33,986
but I had two, and I'm grateful for that, and

546
00:34:34,008 --> 00:34:37,742
I honor them both with my life. My biological

547
00:34:37,806 --> 00:34:41,606
father loved books. He used to tell me, he said, if

548
00:34:41,628 --> 00:34:45,334
you want to hide something from black people, put them in a book. He said

549
00:34:45,372 --> 00:34:49,110
that's what he learned. So he opened a bookstore

550
00:34:50,830 --> 00:34:54,202
in Maryland, in Baltimore, called North Star

551
00:34:54,256 --> 00:34:57,318
Books. And it was an Afro centric

552
00:34:57,414 --> 00:35:01,014
bookstore. And my father's

553
00:35:01,062 --> 00:35:04,394
passed on, of course. He wanted me and my siblings

554
00:35:04,442 --> 00:35:08,254
to carry on the legacy of North Star books. And we kind of let

555
00:35:08,292 --> 00:35:11,966
it fall because we didn't really understand then, but I understand

556
00:35:12,068 --> 00:35:15,460
now. And I'm in the process of

557
00:35:16,390 --> 00:35:20,194
another project where we're resurrecting North Star books, but

558
00:35:20,232 --> 00:35:21,890
that's another story altogether.

559
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:27,954
But my father instilled in me the love of books.

560
00:35:28,002 --> 00:35:31,394
I love books. And going through that master's

561
00:35:31,442 --> 00:35:35,062
phd program and reading the books that I had

562
00:35:35,116 --> 00:35:38,874
to read for that. And then when it got to the point where I was

563
00:35:38,912 --> 00:35:42,474
actually reading what I wanted to read for my research

564
00:35:42,592 --> 00:35:46,358
and all of that, the things I learned,

565
00:35:46,454 --> 00:35:49,958
it changed me. No,

566
00:35:50,144 --> 00:35:53,550
it didn't change me. It brought me out of

567
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:57,406
myself. It freed me in a

568
00:35:57,428 --> 00:36:01,018
way that I'm comfortable in my own skin.

569
00:36:01,114 --> 00:36:04,834
And I didn't know that I

570
00:36:04,872 --> 00:36:08,594
wasn't. I didn't know that I was afraid of my own

571
00:36:08,632 --> 00:36:12,466
shadow for a long time. But I had to

572
00:36:12,488 --> 00:36:16,214
put on that strong veneer because you're not going to mess with

573
00:36:16,252 --> 00:36:20,006
my kids. You're not going to mess with me. And behind me,

574
00:36:20,028 --> 00:36:22,600
I'm like, oh, God, I hope they don't turn around and say anything,

575
00:36:27,610 --> 00:36:31,250
but you put on what you have to put on and the survival,

576
00:36:31,330 --> 00:36:34,666
right? I'm going to be what I need to be to make sure me and

577
00:36:34,688 --> 00:36:38,074
my kids are okay. And if I have to look like a bully, even though

578
00:36:38,112 --> 00:36:41,934
inside I'm melting and crying and screaming, that's what I'll look

579
00:36:41,972 --> 00:36:45,726
like. Well,

580
00:36:45,748 --> 00:36:48,400
I have to say, I've known you now for

581
00:36:49,890 --> 00:36:53,360
18 years, maybe, I think maybe

582
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:58,258
a long time. We've known each other a long time. It's been a

583
00:36:58,264 --> 00:37:02,098
minute. I've never experienced you as a

584
00:37:02,104 --> 00:37:05,606
bully. Never. That would never be a word that I would

585
00:37:05,628 --> 00:37:09,334
use and never would even cross my mind

586
00:37:09,372 --> 00:37:11,400
in my experience of you. But I understand.

587
00:37:12,970 --> 00:37:16,280
But I understand. Yeah, I understand.

588
00:37:16,970 --> 00:37:20,486
Doing what you need to do to take care of your

589
00:37:20,508 --> 00:37:24,266
kids and to survive. Yeah. And in reality, it

590
00:37:24,288 --> 00:37:28,138
was usually more of a look or sharp tone to somebody who thought they were

591
00:37:28,144 --> 00:37:30,640
going to take advantage of one of my children. I was like, what?

592
00:37:33,330 --> 00:37:36,606
Look, if they hadn't shrunk down after what, I don't know what I would have

593
00:37:36,628 --> 00:37:40,334
said. But you

594
00:37:40,372 --> 00:37:42,640
say that, what? Just right. They'll be like.

595
00:37:47,510 --> 00:37:51,154
I might have to practice that. Might have to practice that.

596
00:37:51,192 --> 00:37:55,038
What? But what you say, your story of going back

597
00:37:55,064 --> 00:37:58,674
to school, of getting mad, of educating

598
00:37:58,722 --> 00:38:02,182
yourself, of reading, of learning more about yourself in that

599
00:38:02,236 --> 00:38:04,150
time, honestly,

600
00:38:05,850 --> 00:38:09,340
I think that's the key. I know this sounds

601
00:38:09,870 --> 00:38:13,500
strange. I've been thinking a lot about success.

602
00:38:14,270 --> 00:38:18,106
About what success. Not so much what

603
00:38:18,128 --> 00:38:21,200
it means, but what it feels like.

604
00:38:21,970 --> 00:38:24,640
Right? What does success feel like?

605
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:30,080
And when you

606
00:38:31,330 --> 00:38:34,900
tell me what you have done,

607
00:38:36,070 --> 00:38:39,602
how you've evolved, how you continue to

608
00:38:39,656 --> 00:38:43,394
evolve, how you continue to open up in

609
00:38:43,432 --> 00:38:47,206
your relationships, to your partner, to your children, to

610
00:38:47,228 --> 00:38:50,280
yourself, to your community,

611
00:38:51,930 --> 00:38:55,334
Kathy, that is success. To me, that

612
00:38:55,372 --> 00:38:59,174
is so rich

613
00:38:59,302 --> 00:39:02,250
and beautiful and inspirational.

614
00:39:02,910 --> 00:39:06,154
And I think that you found the key to

615
00:39:06,192 --> 00:39:09,942
that in continuing

616
00:39:10,006 --> 00:39:13,546
your education, in leaning into curiosity

617
00:39:13,738 --> 00:39:16,990
and in being willing to reconsider

618
00:39:18,130 --> 00:39:21,040
how you live life

619
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:25,874
and work with people and

620
00:39:25,912 --> 00:39:29,746
relate to people every day. Even as you're saying that,

621
00:39:29,768 --> 00:39:32,580
it just makes me like, oh, I want to meet that person.

622
00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:37,640
I get that, too.

623
00:39:41,050 --> 00:39:44,838
Let me tell you. You can ask my husband. Two days ago,

624
00:39:44,924 --> 00:39:48,278
I was like, prone on the floor,

625
00:39:48,454 --> 00:39:52,266
sobbing in my office, saying, like, what have

626
00:39:52,288 --> 00:39:54,140
I done? With my life.

627
00:39:58,350 --> 00:40:01,040
So I get that feeling, and yet I know

628
00:40:01,650 --> 00:40:05,390
that I am trying to

629
00:40:05,460 --> 00:40:09,146
do what you're doing. I'm trying to keep being curious

630
00:40:09,258 --> 00:40:12,190
about mistakes, to be willing

631
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:16,994
to have humility when I look back on my

632
00:40:17,032 --> 00:40:20,194
life, and to have curiosity as I am in the now.

633
00:40:20,312 --> 00:40:24,034
Right. It's hard. It is not

634
00:40:24,072 --> 00:40:27,734
an easy journey. If I can ask you. I know

635
00:40:27,772 --> 00:40:30,600
that you are a deeply spiritual person.

636
00:40:32,010 --> 00:40:35,830
Has your spirituality played into

637
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:39,340
that? Has it evolved in that time as well?

638
00:40:40,590 --> 00:40:44,330
It has kept me focused.

639
00:40:45,470 --> 00:40:49,174
If I didn't have my faith, if I didn't

640
00:40:49,222 --> 00:40:53,034
have my prayer life, I couldn't have finished

641
00:40:53,082 --> 00:40:56,846
school. There were days when all I wanted to do

642
00:40:56,868 --> 00:41:00,286
was crawl under the bed and give up because it

643
00:41:00,308 --> 00:41:03,220
was pulling so hard

644
00:41:03,830 --> 00:41:07,630
deadlines and writing and rewriting

645
00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:10,050
and rewriting and rewriting.

646
00:41:11,670 --> 00:41:13,780
I've written this seven times.

647
00:41:15,450 --> 00:41:18,706
I don't hear this. I don't see that. It's

648
00:41:18,738 --> 00:41:21,480
like I'm done,

649
00:41:23,050 --> 00:41:26,342
only to have to say, okay the following morning, I'm not

650
00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:30,246
done. Okay, I can do this. And then tucking in

651
00:41:30,268 --> 00:41:33,974
some more and, lord, help sister out. Please help me, because I don't

652
00:41:34,022 --> 00:41:35,580
know what I'm doing.

653
00:41:39,070 --> 00:41:42,734
You know? It's like, I feel

654
00:41:42,772 --> 00:41:46,400
like, in many ways, the ivory tower of education

655
00:41:47,330 --> 00:41:50,960
is another place where

656
00:41:51,730 --> 00:41:55,394
if you don't know who you are and if you don't have

657
00:41:55,432 --> 00:41:59,266
a support system, you cannot last.

658
00:41:59,448 --> 00:42:02,626
It's not intended. And it's interesting

659
00:42:02,728 --> 00:42:06,466
because I said, coming through those last six to nine months,

660
00:42:06,568 --> 00:42:10,040
I was like, this is like hazing. And

661
00:42:10,650 --> 00:42:14,454
people would look at me like, if they weren't going through it right,

662
00:42:14,572 --> 00:42:18,140
they would look at me like, what are you talking about? I'm like,

663
00:42:18,750 --> 00:42:21,718
higher education, PhD programs,

664
00:42:21,894 --> 00:42:25,702
hazing. All right, academic

665
00:42:25,846 --> 00:42:29,546
hazing. Make me feel like a fool, make

666
00:42:29,568 --> 00:42:32,240
me roll on the ground and hate myself.

667
00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:37,278
But it's okay. Without my faith, I couldn't have gotten through it.

668
00:42:37,364 --> 00:42:41,054
Without my husband praying for me, without a community around me

669
00:42:41,092 --> 00:42:44,930
praying for me, I couldn't have done it. So,

670
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,380
yeah, my faith is everything.

671
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:53,300
Yeah, we know that

672
00:42:54,070 --> 00:42:56,710
faith, that spirituality,

673
00:42:57,290 --> 00:43:01,110
that having

674
00:43:01,180 --> 00:43:04,758
faith in something larger than our very small human

675
00:43:04,844 --> 00:43:08,522
organism selves can really help us

676
00:43:08,576 --> 00:43:12,380
through our very small organism lives.

677
00:43:12,830 --> 00:43:16,522
And that also speaks to the work that you do as

678
00:43:16,576 --> 00:43:20,300
a Pastor, too. You are helping people

679
00:43:22,530 --> 00:43:25,994
find, grapple with, manage their faith.

680
00:43:26,122 --> 00:43:29,120
I'm guessing that's what you do. That's a large part.

681
00:43:30,530 --> 00:43:33,780
I help people learn who they are,

682
00:43:34,790 --> 00:43:38,338
who they were birthed to be. I believe

683
00:43:38,424 --> 00:43:41,794
that every individual was put in the earth with a

684
00:43:41,832 --> 00:43:45,126
specific set of gifts and talents and an

685
00:43:45,148 --> 00:43:48,726
assignment. And when we can all come

686
00:43:48,748 --> 00:43:52,422
together and put those assignments together and move

687
00:43:52,476 --> 00:43:55,814
and work and love and keep it going, things get

688
00:43:55,852 --> 00:43:59,098
better. Beautiful. If you had

689
00:43:59,184 --> 00:44:02,330
one piece of advice

690
00:44:02,830 --> 00:44:06,666
or one wish, I'm going to give you the choice, like one

691
00:44:06,688 --> 00:44:10,426
or the other. For people in

692
00:44:10,448 --> 00:44:14,206
midlife, for people who are going through menopause, who are going through all of

693
00:44:14,228 --> 00:44:17,854
these shifts, a lot of people feel bereft. A lot of people feel

694
00:44:17,892 --> 00:44:20,590
like it's the end of a time. They feel hopeless.

695
00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:23,550
They feel uncomfortable.

696
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:28,530
What is one piece of advice or one wish that you would have

697
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,300
for those people or for that person?

698
00:44:33,110 --> 00:44:36,854
I would ask them a question. I

699
00:44:36,892 --> 00:44:40,434
would ask them, when you were growing

700
00:44:40,482 --> 00:44:43,560
up, what did you want to be

701
00:44:44,010 --> 00:44:45,720
and are you there yet?

702
00:44:50,190 --> 00:44:52,970
Hoping that that would open up a conversation

703
00:44:54,350 --> 00:44:58,074
so that we can talk about where are you and

704
00:44:58,112 --> 00:45:01,766
what do you need to do to get to that next place, to

705
00:45:01,808 --> 00:45:05,534
reach that dream, to reach that goal, because

706
00:45:05,572 --> 00:45:09,294
it's in us and it's not time to give up. It's time to just

707
00:45:09,332 --> 00:45:13,118
kind of burrow in and keep moving. So what's

708
00:45:13,134 --> 00:45:15,380
the dream and have you reached it?

709
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:20,994
What did you want to be when you were a

710
00:45:21,032 --> 00:45:24,882
child? I haven't thought about that question

711
00:45:24,936 --> 00:45:28,050
for a very long time. For myself, honestly.

712
00:45:28,490 --> 00:45:32,326
There was a season where I wanted to be a teacher, and I

713
00:45:32,348 --> 00:45:35,922
am one, nontraditional as I am, but I am a teacher.

714
00:45:36,066 --> 00:45:39,754
I wanted to be a doctor. I had no idea what a PhD was.

715
00:45:39,792 --> 00:45:41,690
I wanted to be a pediatrician

716
00:45:43,630 --> 00:45:46,490
and I wanted to be a musician.

717
00:45:47,550 --> 00:45:51,134
And that's a part of my life that I don't spend enough time

718
00:45:51,172 --> 00:45:54,986
with. But I am a singer, a dancer, an actress,

719
00:45:55,178 --> 00:45:58,894
a musician. So I guess all of those

720
00:45:58,932 --> 00:46:02,480
things are now kind of meeting together

721
00:46:03,430 --> 00:46:06,100
and now I just get to enjoy

722
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:10,914
moving forward with that. Then my

723
00:46:10,952 --> 00:46:14,434
wish for you is that you have

724
00:46:14,472 --> 00:46:18,280
more music and dance and

725
00:46:19,130 --> 00:46:22,342
creative impulse and

726
00:46:22,396 --> 00:46:25,080
community in your life this year.

727
00:46:25,770 --> 00:46:28,700
Amen. I love that. I love that.

728
00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:33,002
Yes. Wow. Kathy, we are at the end of our time.

729
00:46:33,056 --> 00:46:36,650
I could talk to you for forever. But can you tell us

730
00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:40,490
again? I know we'll go sing

731
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,802
together. You don't want to hear. Yes, you do. I'm not going to say that.

732
00:46:43,856 --> 00:46:47,438
I'm always being really hard on myself. People say, do you sing? And I say,

733
00:46:47,444 --> 00:46:50,446
oh, if I sing, run. But you know what? I'm not going to say that

734
00:46:50,468 --> 00:46:54,254
anymore. I'm not going to say that anymore. If

735
00:46:54,292 --> 00:46:57,934
I sing, don't say celebrate, because it means that I feel safe

736
00:46:57,982 --> 00:47:01,714
with you. All right. I'm going to hold you to

737
00:47:01,752 --> 00:47:05,462
it. How can we find you? How can we

738
00:47:05,516 --> 00:47:09,286
support the work that you're doing? Because you're doing some good work.

739
00:47:09,388 --> 00:47:13,202
Thank you. Well, my husband and I have started a nonprofit

740
00:47:13,346 --> 00:47:16,614
called Community Healing Coalition, and

741
00:47:16,732 --> 00:47:18,934
our web address for that is

742
00:47:18,972 --> 00:47:22,170
chcvirginia.org.

743
00:47:22,510 --> 00:47:26,138
And I don't know if anyone might be interested in the

744
00:47:26,144 --> 00:47:28,630
ministry website, but if you are, that's

745
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:32,270
ricministries.org.

746
00:47:32,930 --> 00:47:35,920
Great. I'll put both of those in the show notes as

747
00:47:37,890 --> 00:47:41,418
also doing. Oh, my gosh. And you're also doing coaching

748
00:47:41,594 --> 00:47:44,820
now, too? Yes, I am. And it's interesting that

749
00:47:45,430 --> 00:47:49,134
I've recently been thinking about, I have a coaching

750
00:47:49,182 --> 00:47:52,882
business called Epistan coaching, and I've actually

751
00:47:52,936 --> 00:47:56,694
been thinking about changing the name because I want people to hear the

752
00:47:56,732 --> 00:48:00,214
name and know what it is. So I'm thinking

753
00:48:00,332 --> 00:48:03,890
along the lines of maybe kinship

754
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:07,754
connections or something where when people hear

755
00:48:07,792 --> 00:48:11,450
it, they know what we're doing. And my coaching is

756
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,810
helping individuals impacted by mass incarceration

757
00:48:15,630 --> 00:48:19,194
and related foster care issues, helping them to

758
00:48:19,232 --> 00:48:22,974
move from that place of where they are to where they know

759
00:48:23,012 --> 00:48:26,846
they are in their hearts. So coming out, moving through a

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00:48:26,868 --> 00:48:30,560
transition, and getting flat on their feet and moving forward.

761
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:36,146
Great. Well, I will share

762
00:48:36,328 --> 00:48:38,770
the other two websites.

763
00:48:40,230 --> 00:48:43,794
Thank you. And then as you continue to

764
00:48:43,832 --> 00:48:47,350
evolve, keep me posted. You and I need to do lunch.

765
00:48:49,210 --> 00:48:52,774
Well, thank you so much for your time today. I value you and

766
00:48:52,812 --> 00:48:56,226
appreciate you as a community leader

767
00:48:56,418 --> 00:49:00,214
and as a friend. So thank you. Thank you,

768
00:49:00,252 --> 00:49:03,994
Brie, I miss you. I'm so glad for this opportunity and look forward

769
00:49:04,032 --> 00:49:07,606
to seeing you soon. Me too. This is an awesome work that you're

770
00:49:07,638 --> 00:49:11,326
doing. Thank you. Absolutely. Thank you for being part of

771
00:49:11,348 --> 00:49:14,986
it. Here are my key takeaways from this conversation with Dr. Kathy

772
00:49:15,018 --> 00:49:18,302
Ames Turner. Number one, embrace your

773
00:49:18,356 --> 00:49:21,694
journey. Kathy's story of completing her doctorate in her

774
00:49:21,732 --> 00:49:24,994
60s shows that it's never too late to follow your

775
00:49:25,032 --> 00:49:28,594
aspirations, whether it's continuing education or

776
00:49:28,632 --> 00:49:32,434
pursuing a new career. The key is to reflect on

777
00:49:32,472 --> 00:49:35,830
your childhood dreams and take actionable steps towards

778
00:49:35,900 --> 00:49:38,806
achieving them. Number two,

779
00:49:38,988 --> 00:49:42,770
normalize conversations about bodily transitions.

780
00:49:42,930 --> 00:49:46,182
Let's actively work towards discussing topics like

781
00:49:46,236 --> 00:49:49,994
menopause, puberty, and hormonal imbalances. This

782
00:49:50,032 --> 00:49:53,466
can include having open conversation with family and friends,

783
00:49:53,648 --> 00:49:57,242
creating educational content, or advocating for better

784
00:49:57,296 --> 00:50:00,830
health care for women, particularly women of color.

785
00:50:00,980 --> 00:50:04,622
You can start by sharing this episode with a friend, a family

786
00:50:04,676 --> 00:50:07,870
member, or even your medical care provider.

787
00:50:08,370 --> 00:50:11,614
Number three, invest in self care and

788
00:50:11,652 --> 00:50:15,086
relationships. Dr. Kathy's shift from survival

789
00:50:15,118 --> 00:50:18,786
mode to focusing on relationships highlights the

790
00:50:18,808 --> 00:50:22,194
importance of self care and surrounding yourself with

791
00:50:22,232 --> 00:50:25,654
supportive individuals. Take time to

792
00:50:25,692 --> 00:50:29,426
assess your relationships and personal well being, engage

793
00:50:29,458 --> 00:50:33,014
in activities that bring you joy and stimulate your

794
00:50:33,052 --> 00:50:36,710
curiosity and communicate openly with loved ones

795
00:50:36,780 --> 00:50:39,800
to foster a balanced and fulfilling life.

796
00:50:40,570 --> 00:50:44,294
Thank you for listening to the pause to go podcast. Special thanks

797
00:50:44,332 --> 00:50:47,622
to code based co working and WTJU radio for their

798
00:50:47,676 --> 00:50:51,370
support. This has been an awkward, sage

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00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:51,850
production.