Barbara Lipska

Bree Luck: [00:00:00] The human brain is utterly miraculous. I mean, if I chose to go back to school right now, if that were a priority for me, I would absolutely study neuroscience. I am just obsessed with our brains Particularly how our brains create and change our sense of self.

My conversation today is with a really extraordinary woman, Dr. Barbara Lipska . Dr. Lipska. I'm gonna call her Barbara because I just feel very close to her after talking to her. Barbara was diagnosed early in 2015 with metastatic melanoma in her brain's frontal lobe. And as her cancer progressed and throughout a multitude of treatments, Barbara [00:01:00] experienced behavioral and cognitive symptoms connected to a range of mental disorders, including her professional specialty schizophrenia.

And Lipsky's family and her associates were completely alarmed by the changes in her behavior, but she couldn't acknowledge them herself in that moment. Eventually and miraculously Barbara returned to normal functioning 

and she wrote a book. The neuroscientist who lost her mind, my tale of madness and recovery about the experience. oh God, I love talking to this woman.

 To be able to talk to her, not only about who she was before and then who she was when her brain was so dramatically compromised by the cancer, by the lesions and by.

The treatment and then who [00:02:00] she was when she was writing the book, which was sort of this aftermath period of, of mania, and fortunately who she is now. Seeing her respond to all of those versions of herself with grace and respect and. Humor and awe, I don't know. I think of all the times that I've met someone who knew me when I was at a low point and I feel embarrassed that they knew me, then. I've heard other people say that they had this experience, or like, I can't tell you how many men I have met.

Say, you know, when I was in college, I was an asshole. right. It's like that kind of thing. Like they're embarrassed about who they were then and how they behaved then, because they've changed now. And her respect for her brain's entire [00:03:00] process of evolution is just something I think we can all learn from.

 Enjoy this episode. And as you reflect on times when maybe you weren't the self that you want to be, or you feel unrecognizable to yourself, maybe give that part of you a little, a little grace and humor. And respect. Check check.

Check check, check.

Dr. Lipska: Okay. I can. 

Bree Luck: Hello? Hello, 

Dr. Lipska: no video. Something is wrong. Uh, there is. Can you see me? I can see you. Okay, great. I can see you.

My husband was helping me, but although it was something strange happening 

Bree Luck: well. I just,

 I finished your book yesterday, so I feel like I know your whole family now 

Dr. Lipska: welcome. 

Bree Luck: You're welcome. Thank you so much for talking to me.

Your brain

Dr. Lipska: and your body and 

Bree Luck: your body.

Dr. Lipska: Which is part of the brain actually, right? 

Bree Luck: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And, um, I'm gonna do an introduction. I'm gonna introduce you bef not as part of our conversation here. Okay. But I do an introduction and then I go into the conversation. Okay. That we have . But, um, I.

 I loved your book so much. 

 that that I wanted. To bring you on because, well, a couple of reasons, the first is that most of the people that I'm working with right now, the, the [00:04:00] clients I have and the people in my life socially are women, uh, in midlife,

who are. Just in the throes of perimenopause and so one of the things that I hear a lot is, uh, I, I feel like I'm losing my mind. I like I'm losing my mind. So that's one thing. And then I also have a friend who is actually also coming on the podcast who is suffering from a really terrible illness and had, uh, A psychotic episode as a result of this illness , along with some other personality changes mm-hmm um, so she had actually posted an article about your book.

And that's how I found 

Dr. Lipska: you. that's very nice. You thank your friend. 

Bree Luck: Well, and thank you. I so believe that the way that we can. Demystify the [00:05:00] very mysterious experience of being human and the changes that happen in our brains and our personalities over time. Um, the, the more we can talk about it and share that with each other, the better it is for everyone mm-hmm and your book, the neuroscientist who lost her mind does that

in such a beautiful way because it's deeply, deeply personal, but also you're an expert. You are and you're a scientist and you, I 

Dr. Lipska: wish I am well, 

Bree Luck: don't, they say that the true measure of expertise is knowing what you don't know. 

Dr. Lipska: yeah. I anything about it, either do experts about how the brain works really and what causes mental illness.

We don't know it yet. , 

Bree Luck: It's so true, but we try . Yeah. I, uh, would love to just talk to you about your experience. I want everyone to read your book and I'm gonna put it in the show notes . Uh, highly, highly, highly recommend.  Uh, but also I'm just [00:06:00] really happy to be able to talk to you today about how you are now.

And looking back on this, even since you've written the book, maybe there have been some changes in how you even feel about that period in your life. Yeah. And maybe this period in your life . You just retired right after? Yes, I did a long career. Yes. 

Dr. Lipska: Over 30 years of work on mental illness here in the states and in Poland, mm-hmm, where I did some initial work on people with schizophrenia actually.

Bree Luck: How's retirement treating you. How are you? 

Dr. Lipska: I like it really a lot. Oh, I'm so glad about not being perfect about, uh, having to go there on time. I was always on time. I I'm a very punctual. Person in general. So it was a lot of stress, which, uh, I didn't need, uh, given my [00:07:00] brain condition , which is not perfect.

It is not perfect by any means of imagination, but I'm alive. And that's the biggest gift that I could get. . 

Bree Luck: Indeed. And what is perfect. Anyway, 

Dr. Lipska: really, everybody's struggling with something, but , I don't know what it is. uh, 

Bree Luck: I'm so glad that you're enjoying your retirement. 

Dr. Lipska: Are you looking forward to it? um you're very young 

Bree Luck: I'm not quite there yet, but my father just retired last year. When I saw that you had retired after reading your book, I thought, oh, how is 

Dr. Lipska: she doing with, 

Bree Luck: because you're quite the go getter.

Dr. Lipska: Uh, like with everything I could have, uh, been very depressed or not, I could have been happy. So if I have two choices to be depressed and unhappy, I choose happiness. that's my personality. I try to be happy in every [00:08:00] situation, even a difficult one. 

Bree Luck: Which is why when you have such an immense trauma to your brain and you had so many, uh, physical and chemical transitions that happened in your body that will talk about in just a moment mm-hmm that you had no choice.

For a while there, you had some personality changes that you did not have control over, 

Dr. Lipska: at that time, I didn't even realize what happened to me. And if I had any choices for anything , that's part of this disease, uh, mental illness that you just don't know don't know about yourself and don't know about your environment and your loved ones or anything at all.

Bree Luck: Absolutely. So let's go back a little 

Dr. Lipska: bit. Mm-hmm sure. And, 

Bree Luck: uh, and can you tell us your story that you've written a whole book about , but particularly around, um, what [00:09:00] happened to you in 2015? 

Dr. Lipska: Okay. That requires a little bit of introduction. A little, right? yeah. so, as you can guess by my, uh, accent, I am, uh, not a native American or whatever it is English.

Uh, I came from Poland, uh, where I worked on mental illness. I came to NIH, national institutes of health, uh, to again, work on mental illness, national Institute of mental illness. And I was a very successful person professionally as a mother. As a grandmother later, and as an athlete, being athletic and doing sports was a real passion 

I loved it. All kinds of sports, skiing, running marathons, triathlons, everything cycling with my husband. And then. It ended pretty dramatically, and I had no idea that it will happen. So the first one, that there was a [00:10:00] chain of, of brutal events that happened to me when I was over 15, not even 60.

So I consider myself young and almighty as all your young people perhaps feel. Uh, so I was, uh, diagnosed with breast cancer. First. This struck me. I, I, I thought I don't deserve it. I'm an athlete. I am a worker. I need to go to work. I don't need it. Of course, I didn't need it, but I got it.

And it was not easy because it was pretty advanced. I had, um, MAs mastectomy, radiation and chemo, and, uh, it weakened me both mentally and physically, but being who I am um, I lifted from this, uh, Strike pretty quickly. And I gained cycle and did everything I could . And most importantly, every day I was at work, but three years later, I got melanoma, the [00:11:00] most aggressive cancer that can be, it was first on the skin.

But again, three years later. Uh, it, uh, metastasized. So spread to the brain and I knew it just basically deadly without anybody telling me, because my husband. In 1985, when Poland died of it, he was only 36 at the 

Bree Luck: time. This was your first husband?

My first husband. 

Dr. Lipska: Yes. So I knew quite a bit about this, this cancer, and I didn't have any hope, but being who I am again, I rather optimistic person. I didn't believe I will die against all predictions. I thought. I'll find something. I don't know what it, what it is that I'll find, but, but I started fighting immediately basically when the diagnosis was there, that I had it in the brain.

I [00:12:00] contacted all possible centers for cancer, the best doctors in the states. And indeed I found a possibility. That it just happened in 2015, that there was a clinical trial for melanoma in the brain, but nothing was known about this immunotherapy, , uh, this treatment is called immunotherapy.

So I didn't know, will they kill me or will they cure me? Nothing. Neither did the doctors, they warned me. It can be horrible for me, but I chose a risky business rather than wait and die because I knew I will die without acting. So I acted on it. And at the beginning it was pretty horrible. It inflamed all the melanoma cells in my brain, which [00:13:00] swelled the brain to the point that I lost my mind.

Now you will probably ask how it looks I laughing, but it was not a laughable thing at all. All of a sudden, when I started this therapy, I behaved very strangely. My family was terrified. I did things that I would have never done. Going outside, running without being properly dressed, basically kind of naked with my one breast because the other one was removed, uh, after breast cancer I didn't know what is that I should behave differently. I didn't understand anything. I did other things. I thought , my family's plot against me, they were talking probably terrified about my strange behaviors and I thought they are plotting to, I don't know, or kill me or do something to me [00:14:00] or remove me because I am ill.

I understood that I am ill, but I didn't understand how ill or what is the illness. So, uh, I started being suspicious, uh, again, uh, for, um, other people strangers coming to our house to fix something. I thought they were killing us. Everybody was, uh thinking about, uh, doing something bad to me and to my family.

I was angry and it's no wonder I was angry when I thought everybody's against me and my family. I was screaming. I was really behaving like a child with a tantrum. Uh, I didn't understand anything. I had no insight. Uh, I didn't have memory. I would repeat the, the same sentence of question all the time.

. Uh, I lost short term memory and it lasted several months. 

Bree Luck: Um, one of the moments that struck me in the book was [00:15:00] when the exterminator came. to your home. 

You were very, very much afraid and convinced that the exterminator was trying to poison you all.

Dr. Lipska: And I used my chemical, I, I was a chemist. I was using my past expertise to convince him that he's doing harm to us that he's spraying. Chemicals. And I tried to, say, what chemicals are you spraying? What, what chemicals? And he of course didn't know he was just spraying something against Theise.

And this was for me,  um, the evidence that he doesn't know. so he must be hiding something if, uh, he is not telling us what he's doing and these kinds of, uh, things happened again. And again, uh, we picked up once, uh, pizza, uh, in the restaurant and I ate it.

And [00:16:00] I was sure it's poison cause I really didn't feel well after it. Uh, it, it was just before my brain was so swollen that anything I would eat would cause me pain and discomfort, but I was sure it was a PO pizza. I was screaming. Why didn't we this poison? So it is called paranoia.

I thought everybody is, uh, only waiting for us to die.

Bree Luck: And, you know, because you. Called because your expertise came into play in the justifications for things. It made sense. One of the things that really struck me in reading it was. How hard it must have for your family, because you were unaware.

You couldn't see, you were in the box of your brain. There's no way to see it from the outside, but then your family knew that something was amiss, but it was so hard because so many things. Were, I think you said it was like an [00:17:00] exaggeration of who you were. So there were things like the expertise  uh, with the chemicals and the exterminator.

Yeah. You know that you knew that. Even though your family may have felt that you were being, um, a little meaner really, or short, short tempered irritable. Yeah. That the rationale underneath it may not have felt like paranoia at that point, because it was in keeping with who you are and what you already knew.

Dr. Lipska: Yeah. They could have been true. It is not completely a mess. It was not completely a mess, but there were pieces of truth, the grains of truth. What I was saying, but together it was complete bullshit. Yeah. Yeah. Which I did not realize. 

Bree Luck: Then your daughter really made sure , that they checked you out to see that there was this [00:18:00] terrible brain swelling going on. Right. That's when they determined what was going on. 

Dr. Lipska: I didn't want to go to the hospital. I don't know for what reason, because perhaps I didn't feel I am ill or didn't realize that something is wrong with me.

And I thought she is just, uh, irrational , but thankfully she was irrational. She saved my 

Bree Luck: life. And so then you went through. Numerous other treatments to, because your brain was swelling and there was more cancer at that point. Yes. Right. More lesions. 

Dr. Lipska: So it was not exactly cancer. I had a lot of melanoma cells that during this, uh, immunotherapy swell.

So on MRI, on magnetic res imaging scans, they looked like tumors and there. There were probably 30 of them a lot. I mean, no one has 30 [00:19:00] tumors in the brain and survives. This is basically holes everywhere in the brain, but they were probably swollen cells, a lot of them. So they had to do something to reduce this swelling.

They didn't know that these are swollen cells. They thought I have tumors but I had bigger tumors as well. So it's a mixture of everything. So they put me on high doses of steroids. Steroids are given to reduce inflammation, not only the brain, but in the body. Uh, and, uh, And I was doing better because it, the swelling was going down in the parts of the brain that makes us human in the frontal cortex, that deals with memory, that deals with all kinds of things that, you know, thinking cognition and such.

But they have, uh, [00:20:00] different behavior changes. For instance, they cause mania, I, in a way regained my insanity. I could look back and see what I have done. And there was, I realized it was not okay to scream and, uh, and be afraid that someone is killing us. Uh, but I became manic. Being manic is not being able to sleep and to do things all over 24 hours a day.

And that's what I did. And that's how I wrote my book. because I couldn't sleep. I was. So intensely involved as a scientist in the process of understanding my brain and what happened to me that the book happened. That's the only good thing that came out from this whole dramatic experience.

I didn't die. I had a lot of [00:21:00] other treatments, uh, during the next years until 

Bree Luck: now, actually. 

Dr. Lipska: Uh, so it will be seven years already.. Uh, but the good thing was that I, I, couldn't not write right after I wrote this book right after, of course it wasn't a finished book. Uh, , the more I regained my sanity, the more I could judge my writing and my.

My behavior. Uh, but it took a long time. 

Bree Luck: I'm sure I was thinking as I was reading it, I knew that you were writing it in a, at least a hypomanic state, if not a fully manic state. And I wondered because it's. Very beautifully edited. And you've clearly polished it. it's not journal entries.

What was it like to go back through and see this writing through all these different fluctuations of your brain? You can probably go back and [00:22:00] say, I did not have my language in order that week. That was a tough week. Yeah, 

Dr. Lipska: yeah. 

Well, it's strange, but for me as a scientist, I was in awe what's happening that I could dissect my behaviors based on what was happening in my brain. Truly, I was not afraid. I was in awe. I couldn't believe that I have this opportunity to to understand part of my brain, at least, or to partially understand my brain.

Uh, it was a very different feeling for my family. Very different. They were not in awe they, they were not interested. They were simply scared. They were not sure if it doesn't happen again. And it could mm-hmm uh, because, um, melanoma has a tendency to come back. As I said, it's a very aggressive [00:23:00] cancer.

It is enough for one cell to stay somewhere. And it can come back as a tumor again in the brain or somewhere else, which actually did happen. Mm-hmm so they couldn't so easily be happy that I am describing it. And I was happy. I was not maybe lucky, like I am now, but uh, I had this urge.

Write it down to know to, for other people to know mm-hmm yeah. As you say, manic or hypomanic to, to be such a in that time that I was really, uh, a little part, an ill person. 

Bree Luck: I was so moved by your whole family, really coming together both, to enjoy life with you. And also in their efforts to really, really care [00:24:00] for you.

 The love that you all have is so evident. Do you mind if I read one 

Dr. Lipska: passage from your book? I dunno which one, but 

Bree Luck: I know I'm surprising you. It was soon after you received the first diagnosis, Uhhuh . And when you had had vision issues uh, 

Dr. Lipska: Blood in the occipital visual cortex.

So I couldn't see in the right lower part of the visual field. 

Bree Luck: You a, an explanation of the different parts of the brain early in the book and what those different parts do. And what's extraordinary about that is that as your behaviors change and 

um, as you're processing changes, then we can see it in the book. We can read it in the book. We can almost guess then where there's a disturbance in the brain. Mm-hmm mm-hmm so, and it started with not a behavioral change, but a vision [00:25:00] change. Yeah. And so you really felt like this was a death sentence.

Well, your family really felt like this was a death sentence. You were ready to power on 

Dr. Lipska: well, I knew that as well, but I was still ready to power on. I don't know. I never stopped 

Bree Luck: you. Didn't. And so your family went to Hawaii. 

Dr. Lipska: Together. Oh yeah, you 

Bree Luck: took a beautiful trip and, and this is the part that just.

I'm tearing. I'm very emotional. I'm a 

Dr. Lipska: very emotional, I pray too. 

Bree Luck: But you said this every night in Hawaii, all five of us stretch out on the tropical lawn in front of our bungalow hold hands and stare for hours into the enormous glittering sky. I don't want to die. I lift my foot to touch a star with my big toe.

And then another star and another, and make wish after wish [00:26:00] soon five pairs of feet are dancing across the stars. Skipping over the vastness from which we came and to which we'll return. We are together now, tight as can be I 

Dr. Lipska: will cry. it reminds me, I, I know I didn't read the book for, for several years now.

So it, it is it. Yeah, it brings this me, these feelings and memories. To me so powerful. 

Bree Luck: It is so moving and seeing them there with you through that journey was also very moving. And I thought about how much we. In our medical system and you really go through it. It was not all easy.

Sometimes you got great advice and sometimes not so great advice. Sometimes you were treated very well and very quickly, and [00:27:00] sometimes it was taking longer than you wanted it to. Sometimes you lied a little. To make sure you might 

Dr. Lipska: I get it. Get the 

Bree Luck: treatment that you wanted. And sometimes you had a team of people working together and, and your family was there to advocate for you and to listen and to be there as a team.

 Not everyone has that. And, um, you have a brilliant family. 

Dr. Lipska: I do. I do. I'm so proud of them. And I love them like unimaginable I don't write it in the book, but now my grandsons are adults and they are incredible. like my whole family. They are incredible.

I am very proud of every member of my family. I'm sure. 

Bree Luck: And so what was it like afterwards? You lost yourself for a little while you lost your mind. [00:28:00] And then you came back and, and began to realize how much you had lost your mind. And my question is what has that been like for you?

Dr. Lipska: Well, it didn't happen all over a sudden, so, uh, it happened. Gradually for a long time, not even months, but a year, maybe even more so it made it easier because it, you know, this is not a sudden change, but as I said, I was curious, first of all, I was not, uh, I didn't feel pity for myself that I went through this process.

Uh, it was more curiosity and a scientific, I don't know, maybe I did it because it was helpful. if I, if I had pity for myself, I, it would have undo me and. I would not be happy about it. So, uh, how [00:29:00] was it? Uh,

it was pretty simple. I would say I went back to work. Uh, not many people knew about what happened. Not many people read a book. Mm-hmm when it came out. So it would be three years after. Um, I don't know. But some came to my, uh, um, presentations about the book when it came out.

mm-hmm um, so for a while, I. I was actually glowing in my discoveries, my discoveries about myself and this, feeling of, you know, I know who I am. I'm presenting it to you. uh, many people couldn't believe that it happened. Were very surprised that I'm I'm here. I didn't die or I have still all the faculties there.

uh, so it was, I was a little bit worried that it will, but not much. I have to [00:30:00] say.

I was not that much worried. I was hopeful and I was happy and , I'm still happy. I don't know why well, 

Bree Luck: I know that you really advocate around and that you believe that mental illness is a physical issue. Yeah. It's not a moral issue, right? Yeah. This is not there's, there's no room for shame 

Dr. Lipska: because this is a physical issue.

Well, I'm pretty sure it is about the brain and brain is physical. It is nothing mysterious about it. I mean, everything is mysterious, but it's, it's not mysterious in the sense that there's some other power  uh, acting on it.

So, uh, in that sense, mental illness, is caused by our brain. And I don't know how and no one actually knows yet. Uh, we are working on it so that we know which chemicals, which connections at which age it happens. It's [00:31:00] probably happens is brother happens early. Um, But definitely it's not the upbringing.

It's our mothers have no fault in doing it, uh, or other people. Uh, it's just that our brains are not working properly. Uh, 

Bree Luck: I think about how many people now during the pandemic are having. Psychotic episodes,

and that it actually seems to be, in some ways, a byproduct of this pandemic is that there's such an increase and. Yeah. So it's like, clearly this is not about schizophrenic mothers. this is yeah. 

Dr. Lipska: Related depress. So of course, um, who we are. So that's another question. What determines ourselves, right? What can I say about.

My character, my personality, and then when it breaks, uh, every [00:32:00] personality, every human being  uh, is made of DNA. Right? We are determined by our DNA. Uh, so. I am different from you because we have a different DNA, but what else is determining our behavior? It's not only DNA. It is everything that happens to us.

In other words, environment, circumstances. Why? Because DNA is not everything. It is important. How genes are expressed. So how they act and they are expressed depending on what is happening to us in Ute. When we are developing either as fetus, or as small children or adults in pandemic, it is stressful.

So if these stresses fall onto people who have particular [00:33:00] DNA, they may be more affected by all kinds of stresses, all kinds of trauma. And this one of them, we have a particular stressful situation. Now we have pandemic. We have war in Ukraine. I can feel it on myself. You know, sometimes I cannot sleep.

I think about these things and you probably too, like every one of us, but not everyone, uh, commits suicide. Not everyone has psychotic episodes. Not everyone cannot even sleep. Right. Some people don't even notice what is happening. So I think these are the factors that makes 

Bree Luck: us all different.

 You talked a little bit about the, the one benefit of mania was Uhhuh finishing 

Dr. Lipska: the book. Starting the book actually starting, 

Bree Luck: starting the book. Right? Writing the book, writing the book. Yeah, I think [00:34:00] about when I've, uh, I, I have a SIM when I've been on steroids, I've had a similar reaction and my house gets very, very clean.

Dr. Lipska: it's it's obsession. It just 

Bree Luck: obsession. Right? Um, those are it. That's almost, uh, Gallo's humor, right? Like we have to laugh a little bit about something that's which I love.

But, well, of course you do, because you, you want to find the way to make the most of any situation and to find joy in? 

Dr. Lipska: That, yeah, partially it's just my DNA. So I, it's not up to me. I, I just act like this because. I have this DNA that makes me do it. And maybe what happens to me, uh, increases or decreases, uh, these, uh, feelings, uh, or behaviors.

Yeah. 

Bree Luck: So we were talking about the self? 

Dr. Lipska: Yeah. um, 

Bree Luck: I know someone else who has had, um, a major brain trauma who had a different,[00:35:00]  uh, a different personality sort of came up in that time. Or like for you an exaggerated personality. And she actually sort of refers to that.

She's no longer in that state. She's returned to health, um, and, she's not in a delusional state anymore. Mm-hmm , she's not in a manic state. She's in a healthy state. Right now. And when she refers to that part of her, she actually is like, she uses the word.

She, instead of I, because it helps to separate she's because that wasn't the self that she is now. Do you have any of that? Do you have any sense of this was another person? 

Dr. Lipska: No, I don't. Because I am not afraid of this. Mm-hmm I embrace this other person if you will, uh, as myself. Mm. Uh, if I did that, it would mean, uh, she, I don't, I don't like them or she's separate.

Uh, but I like [00:36:00] her , she's not separate she's me. So I am her. So there is no reason to call her. She, I call her "I"

Bree Luck: so what do you feel that you discovered about yourself now 

Dr. Lipska: If it, it didn't happen to me.

I wouldn't know that my family loves me that much. I knew they do, but I wouldn't know they are ready to do everything for me, although maybe I would, I don't know. but it is a very good feeling. It's not a feeling that they pass the test because it's not a test, but, uh, a good feeling that we together , we're like one body, all of us, 

Bree Luck: It's really a story of resiliency personal resiliency, physical resiliency, but also familial resiliency.

Yeah. It was really, beautiful. Do you have any advice [00:37:00] or thoughts that you'd like to share for either people who are going through or have recently gone through major brain issues or are struggling with mental illness or their loved ones? How can, how can we find that resiliency? Well, it's always, 

Dr. Lipska: I think, easier for each of us to do things in a team.

It doesn't have to be family. It can be friends, it can be strangers who, who are able to do it for you. So, so one of our advices. To do it in a team. Some people keep it to themselves if they have cancer or any other problem, uh, they don't want to share because it's too hurtful for them or for other people.

Um, but I don't think it's a good strategy. I like to share. I like to communicate. So maybe it was natural for me, but it, it [00:38:00] certainly helps. So that's, that's one thing, one advice share it. It will be easier for you share it. Please 

Bree Luck: share it so that you can have a team working with you.

Yeah. 

Dr. Lipska: Mm-hmm yes. If they don't know, they wouldn't help you. If they don't understand, they will not help you understanding is another thing. If you don't understand it, it's very difficult  uh, to help because people instinctively Uh, don't like it when they don't know it. Usually, they don't know mental illness. That's the stigma. That's why the stigma, they don't understand it. What's happening in the brain. And it's mysterious. It's mysterious to everybody, but even to the scientist, but if you acknowledge that it is in the brain, it is not a fault of anybody.

It just happens. It is easier for people to understand, oh, you cannot [00:39:00] walk because you missed your leg or you broke your foot. You see it. It's easy. You lost your arm. Oh, you don't have your arm. It's visible. But if you lost your, your mind, it's inside the brain, you don't know what it is. You don't understand it.

It's very difficult to accept. 

Bree Luck: it makes me think about how women who are in perimenopause are having major brain changes happening. I believe in the frontal cortex. I need to double check that because I am not a neuroscientist. Um, but, but when there are those brain changes happening, so many women have issues with impulse control with, um, with memory, , uh, with, uh, well, and many of these things come back to impulse control, right.

Because it's also being more irritable being emotion. Yeah. 

Dr. Lipska: Mm-hmm emotion. Mm-hmm 

Bree Luck: So it's really important to not try to suffer silently, but to share with others. 

Dr. Lipska: Mm-hmm, simply share it. Uh, [00:40:00] as with mental illness. It's not really very well known. What, what is happening with hormonal changes? I know. In our Institute, they're working on it.

Institute of mental health. So, um, they have been working on it when I worked there. I don't so I shouldn't say, but, uh, these stories are not complete yet, but if you don't talk about it, you'll be suffering alone and it's the most horrible suffering I can imagine. Uh, So I repeated, I repeated, I understand it, but I 

Bree Luck: think we need to hear it.

It's good. 

Dr. Lipska: Yeah. Very important to share it. 

Bree Luck: Um, well, Dr Lipska, thank you so much for sharing your story and for your brain, I'm grateful for your, in all of its permutations, because it's helped me to understand. A little bit more and, and I'm sure other people will feel the same way. so thank you. Thank you so [00:41:00] much.

Dr. Lipska: Thank you. And for inviting me and for having such a great conversation 

Bree Luck: Here are my key takeaways from my conversation with Dr. Barbara. Lipska dr. Lipska posits that mental illness is a physical issue of the brain and that we should not have any element of shame around it.

Number two, if you areill. Share your experience with the trusted people in your life. Maybe that's your family, maybe that's your community, but don't go it alone. Particularly when it comes to mental illness. It's not so obvious to the outside world that we're struggling and we have to find people we trust to share.

number three, don't white knuckle it get a team of advocates to work with you and on your behalf, so they can recognize when something isn't quite right. And to ensure that you are getting the care you need. I send a little extra love to those of you who are [00:42:00] struggling right now.

May you feel heard, supported, and valued. And may you also find moments of levity in your day. If you or someone you love is suffering from mental illness, please don't go it alone. I know it can be very hard to find a therapist in the wake of the pandemic, but the SAMSA national helpline is a free confidential 24 7 365 day a year.

Treatment referral and information service in English and in Spanish for individuals and families facing mental and or substance use disorders. And as always, the link is in the show notes.