"How Can I Do Me Better?" a conversation with Jessica Childs on Lyme Disease and Perimenopause, Holding Boundaries (or not) with Integrity, and Showing up with Vulnerability and Presence.

Bree Luck: Sometimes you have a conversation with someone that is truly life-changing. And maybe, in the moment, you think, oh, that was a great chat. I really liked sharing brain and heart space with that person. And then a week or a month or a couple of months, or maybe even a year down the line, you'll look at the changes that you've made in your day-to-day. 

And maybe the changes are tiny, but they add up to have an exponential effect on the transformation of your life. And when you think about it, when you really pause to think about it, you can trace it back to that one interaction. Yeah. So that's what this conversation with Jessica Childs did for me. So it's been especially meaningful to put this episode together for you because I get to experience our beautiful chat about perimenopause and Lyme disease, our chat about really leaning into an embodied state as we explore our relationships to ourselves and to others and the importance of presence and making deep and meaningful conversations. So Jess is a Somatica certified intimacy coach who brings a gorgeous vulnerability to this conversation. 

Listen to this episode and then share it with a friend. I mean, I want you to share this episode specifically with a friend, but also maybe just be aware of how what Jess has to say can transform your days in tiny and monumental ways as you show up with vulnerability and presence and all that you do. Enjoy the episode. 

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I'm so happy to be here with you today. It's like, my heart is just so full it's. It's really lovely. And where are you right now? 

Are you  in  Brooklyn?.  

Jessica: No. We moved to upstate New York in Woodstock the land of beautiful trees, lots and lots of water, forest water, and you know, our music, hippies. It's lovely up here. 

Bree Luck: Okay. It's so beautiful up there. My daughter is at school at Vassar, so she's in Poughkeepsie right down the street. 

Jessica: I went to Bard, which is right down the street from Vassar. It's a great place to be in college, you know, right down the street from the city and good for her.  

Bree Luck: It is, Bard is so great too. They actually have a prison program that I really love. I did a lot of work in prisons for awhile. 
We are talking about perimenopause and menopause, and I would love to begin by talking a little bit about your story.  So can you tell us how old you are and where you are in relation to this part of your life?  

Jessica: Yeah. Yes I can. So I am currently 44. I'll be 45 in December. I believe when I look back that my perimenopause symptoms probably started in my twenties, actually very, very, very minor, very slowly. And in my late thirties, 38 is when I started experiencing differences in cycle length. 

And I thought that it was stress-related. I didn't really put two and two together that there were hormonal shifts that often begin in people's thirties. What I, when I said it started in my twenties, when I really mean, is that hormones have been in flux for all of my, all of my life, probably, but really since I started my cycles in my early teens, you know, hormones have kind of pushed and pulled in different ways in my life. 

So kind of unraveling the start of perimenopause is an, is an interesting, kind of time point. But I will say that this shift, this latest shift began in my late thirties. And like I said, it was the shortening and lengthening of cycles occasionally. So I remember the first time it happened, it was like a 15 day cycle. 

Jessica: And I was so angry because I was on vacation. I literally packed my bags, got on an airplane, but I was like, I will not have a period because it's, you know, I just had a period two weeks ago and boom, on the freaking air flight on the flight. And I'm like, what is happening here? I've got two children in tow, going to the Caribbean. And I was like, I felt very disappointed, but I thought that it was, you know, I thought that it was stress-related and I started noticing that every time I traveled, I had a period. 

I was like, okay, well, this is strange. Like, it's like, my cycles started orienting around my travel schedule. so yeah, that was sort of, a time point that I could you know, site as the beginning of this, at this part of the transition.

Bree Luck: That whole inconvenience of having a period and then the inconvenience of, of other signposts that come up that just show they're just part of our humanity, just part of being human. For me, it sometimes feels like more than an inconvenience. It feels like a betrayal. It's like, no, no, you're just supposed to be five days long. You little period. And I know I count on you and now, now what, what is this that you're throwing at me? It's, it's so interesting. And so where are you now? 

Jessica: So now, you know, six years later, a whole lot of other things have happened. when I was 40, I came down with this headache that was different than any headache I'd ever had before. It was a little bit it felt grindy, not just pain, but like it was, it felt, it had a different quality. Like it felt like sandpaper in my head and I had had, you know, regular headaches here and there throughout my life. And Advil always just knocked him out, but this headache would go nowhere, no matter what I threw at it. And that was sort of the beginning of kind of a major upheaval I started having what I would call  

Micro-voids where I would kind of come to milliseconds later. That makes sense, like little gaps in time started happening. Yeah. In my, in my awareness. And it was, it was terrifying, absolutely terrifying. And I started seeing doctors and by the way, nobody, nobody ever mentioned that I was in the age range where shifts started happening. 

What I did discover though, is that I had, at least I had the antibodies to, Lyme disease, Lyme, Lyme, bacteria, Borrelia bacteria. I had antibodies to it in my body. And so the medical, my medical people treated it like Lyme disease. And so I started down that path and things got really wacky, just really wacky. 

It was about two years of, Deep experience of depression, fatigue, vertigo, sleeplessness, restlessness, you know, elevated heart rate, in these headaches that were just out of control. I, I couldn't walk more than, you know, half a block without my head feeling like it was going to explode. And like I said, there was nothing, there was no medication that I was willing to try. 

I'll say that I wasn't really willing to take opiates. No medication would touch it. And so I, I really, I really, at that point thought that I only had Lyme disease and it was devastating me. I want to fast forward really quick, cause I don't want to get stuck there because I want to elucidate what happened after those two years. There was a, there was a moment when I was laying, actually, I was in the Caribbean again. I was laying in the water and my, my hands felt like they were swollen and I had so much pain in my body. and this is after years of treatment. Okay. 

I had done, I had done everything imaginable to treat Lyme disease. I'm laying there and I'm, and I said, I can't, I can't do. There's nothing else available to me to treat this. I'm going to have to do the best I can with what I have, which is a lot of pain, a lot of inability, a lot of you know, disconnection from people and, and my body because of the pain and, you know, the neurological conditions. 

And that moment really changed things for me. And in the, in the two years that have passed since then, or three years almost now that it's passed since then it has become really unclear. What of that was lyme. And what of, that was the onslaught of peri-menopause and what, and what my, what my personal, orientation to all of that had contributed to the complex, right? 

Yeah.  

Bree Luck: Yeah. I understand that. So I, as you know, I, I also have a history with Lyme disease at the same age, at 40 diagnosed, similar types of symptoms and, and I'm only now, so, and I've been symptom-free, I'm 48 now had been symptom-free since I was about let's see, 42, 43, since I was 43. 

And, and now I'm looking back on it and I'm thinking. Was it just Lyme or was it the beginning of perimenopause? And, and that I, because I haven't really known what to look for. And there's so much of a stigma age-ism it's, it's really, age-ism, it's the loss of fertility. It's the loss of youth. 

Like it's all this loss, right? Loss, loss, loss. And, similarly my doctor, I had excellent medical care. They threw everything at me that they could. but my doctor also never said, this could be related to some hormonal fluctuations that are happening. This could be related to perimenopause. 

So it is fascinating. And I love that you're bringing this up. 'cause I think that it's really useful for women and you, you and I, and our sort of pre-talk you also said that you've, that you've noticed it, not just with women, but with all humans, right? That, that there are some shifts that are happening. 

And it, I think that it's just important for us to know, Hey, if something's coming up and it feels really weird and your doctor doesn't bring up your age or this part of your life or perimenopause, if you have, have, or have had ovaries, It's a good  idea to just ask, right?

Jessica: Absolutely. To bring it into the conversation. And interestingly enough, I don't know how much training doctors actually get in the experience that people may have during perimenopause. Like, I feel like when I have asked my medical, relationships to kind of help me investigate what's going on for me, hormonally, I get a lot of, well, we don't really know there's no real test for it. 

There's, you know, we just kind of, say, well, what symptoms do you have? Well, it sounds like it could be, and, and that's sort of the extent of the content or the organization of it that I can get from my doctors. Now, that being said, I also haven't sought out, you know, deeper, deeper layers of medical practitioners who may have, more thought and more awareness around this. 

So there's that. But I have, I, I'm part of, lots of perimenopause boards now on social media, just trying to, you know, unravel my own story a little bit. And it seems like that's a pretty common occurrence is that you know, there's, there's a lot, there's a lot of great knowledge and skills in the medical community. 

So I, in no way, want to, downplay that, but in women's health and women's reproductive health, there is just a paucity of research and understanding there really is  

Bree Luck: well, and that's why we're here, right? To raise awareness so that we also know what to ask for as consumers, too. That we want our medical care providers to have a greater understanding of what our bodies are going through. 

Jessica: Bree, I just want to take a moment to just like, just sincerely appreciate you having put this together. If I, I wish that I had had something like this before these whole years started so that it wasn't such a shock and it took me years to reorient to my, to my new body. I mean, I, we're all socialized to think of our bodies as machines that carry us around. 

Right. And perimenopause for me has been a great awakening back into my own body with curiosity and trust. That was just not there before.  

 Bree Luck: That's the great gift of this, of this transition, right? Is that it calls us to be curious about our bodies. 

Jessica: It calls us to be curious about how society sees this part of our lives, how we are seen and how we act, as our bodies and minds and cultures are shifting and true I know that there's a lot. There's a lot, that's hard. There's a lot. That's hard about transitions right? They're just hard. They're stressful. They're inherently stressful, but they are also an opportunity to go back to that child's mind that curiosity, right? And, and look at the situation a new,

Bree Luck: alright, let's keep going though, we have a lot to talk about, 

Jessica: get a cup of tea, light a fire in the fire pit. 

Bree Luck: That's right. It's going to be a three-hour chat with Jess and Bree. So, there you are. You're back in the Caribbean again, you have this aha moment then what happens?  

Jessica: Well for me, I, I had had a layer to my life since I was a teen, of kind of activated body state, I'll say known as anxiety, depression, right. 

It was never, it was only at times debilitating at like during critical moments in my life. It became a little bit too much for me to bear. But in general, I would call it like a thin crust. It wasn't enough to stop me from living my life, but it was definitely enough to color it differently than I wished it would be. 

 So I just noticed that I had this awareness of myself and perhaps a way that I could approach. trying to live my best life in the face of pain and neurological confusion and disease and chronic illness. I had this awareness that there might be some room for me to expand into that would create more relief for me. 

Jessica: And that was in looking at how my emotions were playing out in my body. You know, I, I had, I had done the bootstrapping thing, meaning like today I wake up and I'm not going to be sad today, today I wake up and I'm not going to be anxious today. I'd done that my whole life. And when I found myself kind of flattened with fatigue and, the complex of body issues I was having at that time, I didn't really have the energy to bootstrap anymore. 

All I could really do was just kind of lay there and be like, oh, that sucks. You know? And there's something about just laying there and being like, oh, that sucks to feel that way. That actually created an opportunity to learn about myself instead of trying to push it away, instead of trying to push it back and bury it down and get on with it and ignore it and pretend like it didn't exist. 

And just like buck up something about being really deeply exhausted allowed me to, I guess, just like, be like, oh, this is a shitty feeling that I have right now. And I'm not gonna do anything to like, try to stop it. Cause I really can't. And I started noticing a lot of really phenomenal things about the way that my body felt to me, the way that I felt. 

Like I noticed that when I felt good, for instance, my eyes were really open and allowing in the quality of the light. I know that sounds very specific and very personal. And it is that's me that, that's how my body feels good is when my senses are open. Right. And noticing that when I feel really crappy, my senses are really shut down and I'm like thinking a lot of thoughts. 

Bree Luck: Well, you're not receiving then.  

Jessica: I'm not, I'm not embodied. Oh. Right. I'm just like, I'm like, I'm like, I've got my protective mechanisms on, I'm trying to Batten down the hatches. And there's a distinctive difference in my body between when I'm in a state of feeling good and a state of feeling bad. So that was like a big, first step in as I started out unraveling this whole thing. 

And, and I noticed that I could actually find myself in a grindy place of pain and suffering. And if I just attuned to my environment and started letting the light into my eyes and hearing the sounds, it had, it gave me 10% more of myself, you know,  

Bree Luck: 10% more is a lot,  

Jessica: It is a lot. So, and, and now Bree, now the symptoms that I have -- So this is a perfect time to have this conversation because I have been on a cycle that was about 45 days a longer cycle between periods. And my period just started yesterday. Okay. And last night I woke up at three 30 in the morning and I couldn't go back to sleep again. Right. I've had this like migraine helmet, like just kind of waiting there in the sidelines to come in. 

 And noticing how, you know, at the beginning of this process, those things were enough to make me just like, oh, why is this happening? I needed sleep. I have small children. I have to work. I have all these things to do. I have to sleep. And I tell you what, at three-thirty in the morning, last night when I was awake, I was like, oh yeah, this is normal for me. 

Jessica: I'm having my period. And my hormones are a little bit different now, you know? And, and I. You know, I just relate to it more than try to fight it. And it brings me a sense of like, oh, this is my body and I know it and I can trust it. It knows what it's doing. It knows. And there's no, there's no battle to be fought here. 

There's no, there's no judgment to be made on it. It's just the way that my body handles the shifting hormone tide. And that's cool. I got this, I read a book. I, you know, tiptoed around the house and messed around. 

Bree Luck: You soften.

Jessica: I soften around it. Yeah. The next time I wake up in the middle of the night, I will work very hard to remind myself to soften around that. 

Bree Luck: It's a great, it's a great lesson.  

Jessica: Totally. And that's, that's what I, I think that that's the real medicine in these transitions is it brings us back to our embodied self-ness. It's an opportunity it's available to you to not fight yourself and just be a human and be like, this is what it is to be human. 

Yes, I'm going to be tired tomorrow. And I may not perform like the machine of work that society values. Right. But I can have, a good experience of life as a human being, regardless of what I think I should be doing. It's great to be awake in the middle of the night. 

Are you kidding me? The world is quiet and the moon is shining and how lucky, you know,  

Bree Luck: oh, I love that. Reframe

Jessica: Can I share one more quick thing about insomnia and peri-menopause?  

Bree Luck: please.  

Jessica: This is very personal and this kind of ties into the work that I do. 

 When I first had bad insomnia it was part of the Lyme complex and it was weird. It was wacky and weird. And so I, I became a little bit traumatized around sleep meaning that like, I really would be kind of scared to go to bed at night because I was anticipating a really hard night of waking up, going to sleep, waking up, going to sleep, feeling like I'm dropping all, you know, all of these strange, you know, things that were happening in sleep. 

And when I started taking my disease back into my own hands, after that float in the Caribbean, when I realized it was kind of all on me, I decided one night that I was going to pair this terrible experience with something pleasurable. So I started masturbating every time I woke up in the middle of the night to overcome the fight or flight response that waking up was generally paired with.  

There. I said it. 

Bree Luck: Well, and I'm so glad that you did. I've also heard, and I'm clearly, I'm hosting this podcast because I want to learn everything about perimenopause and menopause, which also means that I'm starting with knowing very little... Are there chemical releases that happen with sexual intercourse or with masturbation?

Jessica: Yeah. you know, my perspective on sexuality has grown some, I'm an intimacy coach. That's my day job. I talk about sex. I talk about relationships all day. and my perspective is, you know, is kind of it's well, it's got many facets, but speaking to what you're specifically asking about the, the kind of the, the, the body state of being in your erotic self, I actually think that. 

The erotic self as the socially alive self, the self that is open and comfortable in relation to yourself and others. that includes a lot of embodiment, sex in and of itself and all the touch, physical touch and physical pleasure is an embodied experience, right? 

So like sleep is an embodied experience. You don't think your way to sleep. you, you literally allow your body to just be a body and fall asleep. So, for me, the way that I kind of relate to what you're saying about the chemical shift in sexuality is it's kind of like, you know, when, when you bring your senses, your touch senses, online, it is an embodiment exercise. 

And when you are embodied, your body can do its job of sleeping and other, other things. Do you know?  

Bree Luck: Yes. Yes.  

I love that we have moved right into masturbation and sexuality and intimacy and embodiment, I think. Yes. I'm so glad that you're here. So I am thrilled because I have heard of intimacy coaches, intimacy coaches come up a lot on my Instagram feed, which is really I'm wondering, I'm wondering why. I'm just curious around that. 

Bree Luck: And now I have you here. Can you tell me what you do as an intimacy coach? What does it mean? And what does it look like for you? 

Jessica: You know, every time I get asked this question, I come up with a different answer. so let's see what I come up with today. So as an intimacy coach, I am supporting people in having the kind of relationships and sex that feels the most joyful easeful and pleasurable to them. we are socialized with all of these messages around relationships of all kinds, right? I'm not, maybe not just talking about intimate relationships. I mean, relating to people in general and especially around relationships, you know, romantic partnerships or sexual partnerships, intimate partnerships, there's a lot of messaging that comes from our socialization. 

And when you pare it back, there is a real deep and beautiful human experience of being relational, being, social, being sexual that is available to us, in our own, you know, as part of our own unique experience and storyline, right? Our own unique arousal that, unfortunately, we come to adulthood, really having so much information about what sex and relationships should look like that when we actually have one on our laps, it's very problematic because it's a very different thing to actually be in deep partnership with somebody than culture has taught us it is. So I help people. relate to one another beautifully and wonderfully in intimacy and in sexuality and in a relationship. Yes, that's what I do. And, my particular take on it. My flavor is very experiential and embodied. So I have a real belief in what has come to be known as our, you know, our nervous system. 

Like it's kind of a buzz situation right now, but it's really just like the embodied, the embodied experience of being together. So for instance I endeavor to create experiences for people to practice what it feels like to be an authentic connection with others. And then take that out into the world and connect authentically with people around them. 

That applies to, you know, the way that we, manage our trigger systems, you know, when our emotions come up to repair conversations around, you know, having rupture and connection, and also like what comes up for us when people approach us physically and want to interact with us sexually, like do we know what we want to feel and do, and, and experience in that interaction and how do we, how do we communicate that? 

How do we negotiate? What we really want, what we really want? Not like, not what the romance movies show us. Who is that? Tom Cruise and, think about Top Gun. from my childhood, there was this like Top Gun sexual scene that like. The iconic socialized sex scene of like the man pushing a woman up against the wall and like kissing, kissing and kissing and, and that's cool. 

That's great. But it's not all that's on the menu, you know? Yes.  

So am I right then, in hearing that you are asking your clients to imagine the feeling of those types of, authentic pleasurable, intimate experiences and relationships that you're asking them to imagine it so that it can be real. 

Bree Luck: Is that what it is?  

Jessica: Hmm, that's such a good question. So, I actually endeavor to create an authentic connection with clients where we are actually experiencing in real-time, what it feels like to be open to each other. So this is, you know, this is available. there's a lot of boundaries that come into it, right. 

People always ask, are you a sexological bodyworker, which is a different field, or are you a sex worker? That's a different field. what I am doing is, I am exploring the kind of the internal states of what it feels like to be together. And then, so that, that can look like touch sometimes. 

 So like, I create experiences where a good example is recognizing what a boundary feels like in your body. Okay. So people are talking all about boundaries now. And they talk about it. They're talking and talking about it and feeling it are two different things. When you actually, when you actually go there and feel it on purpose, then you can catalog and know, oh, my body does this when it's uncomfortable, when it wants to pull back, or when it, when something is happening that feels boundary, crossing, this is what it feels like. 

 So I create the experience where I try to find people's boundaries, right. Sometimes that looks like you know, me sitting down next to somebody with our legs touching. Right. Ooh, that feels a little bit too much. That's too much touch for somebody I'm not, you know, involved with. Right. Or somebody that, or maybe it's, maybe I'm working with somebody who doesn't have a sexual orientation toward a female. 

Jessica: Right. And so I'm sitting down, I'd like me to put my hand on their leg. Ooh. What does that feel like? Does that feel okay? Or is that something that's, you know, that's bringing up something in your body. That's saying I'm uncomfortable, you know? So noticing what feels like, escalation that is wanted and what feels like, oh, that's a boundary that I need to uphold. 

Right. I maybe I'm moving quickly, but no,  

Bree Luck: it's, it's, it's great. I'm thinking I'm, I'm thinking about how earlier you mentioned feeling the light come in your eyes and how, if you could put yourself in that state again, it would bring you into an open embodied state and out of the clouded head, lost in thought. That's not exactly what you said, but that kind of feeling state and that this isn't all that different from that.  

Jessica: Yes. I love that. You said that you're asking me such beautiful questions, Bree.  I'm so enjoying this. I love that you brought that up because boundaries are a lot like capacities, right? A boundary is evidenced by an internal state shift now, there are times, and you know this as a mother, where your boundaries are crossed and you are allowing it to happen, right. It's like your kids are coming in and waking you up. I feel aggravated and I'm allowing it to happen because they're my children and I'm letting my boundaries be crossed right now.  

Jessica: So how this relates to the internal state is that, when you are aware that your instinct, your internal state is driving okay. When you're aware that your internal state is shifting, okay. When you become aware of it, you then become choiceful about it. Okay. So I'm not saying that every time you feel a shift in your body and your boundaries may be being touched, it is absolutely necessary that you defend them. 

Right. Children are a great example, but being aware that they're happening gives you choicefulness over how you respond. Yeah. So like, oh, there's my boundary. I'm either going to, you know, react from my boundary being crossed, which is that internal state shift and push somebody away. Right? Like, why'd you cross my boundary? 

Why did you touch my breasts before I wanted you to? Or, ope, I just felt that's making me uncomfortable. Can we slow things down a little bit? Can we, can you try touching my leg instead? Yes. Right. So being aware of these shifts, you know, and, and I will say that there, just to, just to bring wholeness to the topic, there are, there are some people who orient to boundary-crossing in an arousal way. 

Right. So some people will recognize boundary-crossing as arousing.  I don't want to bring any, like any shame to that either. That's a whole nother topic. And it's a, and it's a beautiful world of healing and the nervous system. Right. But that's, that's, you know, that's, that's a different topic. 

 Bree Luck: You said something earlier that this also seems to relate to, and, and perhaps offers a reframe that takes shame out of the picture too, which is that a boundary can be a protective element, right. Something that holds, holds, holds what needs to be on the outside, outside hold, what needs to be kept away away. 

Bree Luck: But a boundary is also a container and, and that we have a capacity within that container that, that it also defines all that we can hold.  

Jessica: Right? Yes. And.  

Bree Luck: And so looking at it from both perspectives for some people to find arousal, when a boundary is crossed, may also have something to do with capacity. 

Jessica: Hmm. Oh my gosh. Yes. You're that you're 100% on the right track. Their boundaries are not fixed states. They are not, there are moments when, you know, my capacity for my partner to comp and just give me a hug out of the blue is there. And other times it is really jarring for me and I, and I don't have the capacity for that. 

Right. It's my boundary is much further out at times, you know, as partners we, you know, can get a little bit of awareness around, you know, attunement to where our partners are at or where our lovers or where our friends are, where our family or whoever is at with their capacity in the moment, you know? 

Totally, totally true. And I, and I wanna, I wanna just say that, you know, for me at 44 years old, almost 45 perimenopausal, I am living a better life than I've ever lived. And it's because of the kind of onslaught of shifts that forced me to pay attention to who I actually am. 

This is all very related to my experience of perimenopause. You know, I, I have, the best sex life I've ever had and I'm a, you know, I'm an aging woman, it's beautiful and I don't anticipate. You know, there is this cultural message. I felt it too. The message of like, oh, I'm getting fatigued and my body's not holding weight, like, like a spry youngster, you know? 

And gosh, I mean, I just, I love my animal body. It's powerful and passionate and it's changing and it's dynamic and I can bring it in a way that I never could before I went through this, you know, this kind of deep dive into how do I, how do I, how do I do me? How have I been doing me? And how can I do me better? 

Bree Luck: How can I do me better? I think that may be my mantra for this week. 

How can I do me better? 

Seriously, seriously. And because I, I do think that we hear a lot about women who are in perimenopause and menopause who say that their sex drive completely drops, that they have no sex drive. 

I also have friends who are in their seventies and eighties who say that they have a fantastic sex drive now that they didn't have when they were in their forties. So I am just curious. What? does that look like for you as a practitioner? Are you seeing those kinds of situations with people who are going through perimenopause and menopause? And are they asking that question? How can I do me better?  

Jessica: Yay. I am seeing that with clients. , I guess my perspective and I don't assume that my perspective is anybody else's . And there's, there's also absolutely no rule in the book that says that in order to have a good life, you have to be sexually active. That's just not a rule. It's nothing you can really be choiceful --You can make your own choices about whether or not you want to have sex a lot or infrequently or whatever there's no rule that says that you have to be, you know, active, sexually in order to have a great life. So that being said I do feel like I see that with our socialization and our lack of true knowledge of what is on the menu for us sexually. 

I think that when the hormones of like fertility, I don't know if you can, but I have always been really. In the days around my ovulation, I just get extra turned on. Like, I'm like, Ooh, that's a good idea. Let's go do that. You know? And in a way that's, that's not really like just an endless fountain of arousal in my body for the rest of the month that really, I really get turned on around my ovulation. 

So when you have the hormonal profile, that's kind of driving these spikes and arousal that can kind of overcome some of the factors in your actual sex life that maybe aren't, you know, hitting the mark of what you really want from sex. Okay. And so there's, and there's also, I, you know, just to kind of bring this into the picture in the beginning of a relationship, there's also the release of a lot of hormones, you know, due to lack of familiarity and questioning your social, standing with the person that you're a partner you're intimate with. 

 So there's this huge hormonal arc that happens at the beginning of our relationship that causes sex to be easy and free-flowing and fun and lots of it. Right. And after that arc has completed, then you're left with two individual people or three, or, you know, whoever you're intimate with. Right. I don't mean to, think about it in terms of just monogamy. 

Whoever you're intimate with so that hormonal profile is. Kind of died back down and now you're individuals and you're like, okay, if you don't know what it is that you really want from sex and your partner doesn't either then chances are you're going to start having sex that isn't quite hitting those needs. 

It's, it's rare that two people just automatically come in and have like, you know, 70 or 80% alignment and the way that they see sex playing out the way that they want sex to play out. And the thing is, we don't really even know this because our cultural messaging is telling us that, you know, if we love each other, then we're going to have lots of sex. 

We'll be lots of attraction and all this stuff, which is just like, you know, it's fun to role play that, but it's not reality. That's not, that's not the reality of being in a human body. Human bodies have long histories of experience and, socialization and culturing and all these things and experience, experience, experience, and wounding. 

Right. And, and. And things that we seek. And if we aren't even aware of that ourselves, how can we share that with our partner? How can we, you know, how can we negotiate, how to bring out the most amazing feelings in each other during sex, right. Unless we even know that it's possible. So I find it, a lot of people in this age to bring it all full circle, have gone through the arc of, you know, big hormones at the beginning of a relationship. 

Maybe they've had, you know, children even, and they are, you know, struggling with stress and pressure around work and child-raising, all this stuff. And they've got the sex life that is, that is not really fulfilling for either one of them. Right. And so you have that. And a lot of women start thinking, oh, I must not be sexual because I don't want sex. 

Right. I must be in that part of my life where yes. Right?  

Bree Luck: Yes. And especially if that's coupled with social invisibility, so that you're getting it from the inside and a social reinforcement of that. Yes. I'm with you.  

Jessica: Yes. So, yes, I love that you brought that into, there's also just the social messaging that women, you know, when their bodies start changing and their priorities are changing to a little bit that, you know, we're not portrayed in the media as these hot, you know, embodied animal women who want to get laid. 

 We don't see it in our culture. Why would we without really contemplating it? How, how do we create that space for ourselves? You know? So that's a great question and I love it. And, you know, like I said, I'm in the middle of perimenopause having the best sex of my life. And I, and I also can feel. That it's different than it was when I was younger. You know, it's not as like driven by what is it? I don't know. I don't, I, I, I think I need to think on that more, but it's, it's got different character now. Lovely character.  

 you spoke earlier about the lack of representation of women who are perimenopausal, menopausal, and post-menopausal as sexy sexual creatures, 

Bree Luck: and so having, having you say, having you say that in the middle of perimenopause, you are having the best sex of your life can also be expansive to us all. It certainly is to me, I'm, I'm hearing you and I'm like, okay, just tell me, how do I do this? Like do this.  

Jessica: I want everybody to have experience. It is truly is the juice of life. 

You know, if there is a flow state, and being an open erotic being in your body, to think of the world as pleasurable and joyful and available to you is there is no greater gift. Perimenopause is a fantastic time to really unpack the sexual, intimate, relational parts of your life. 

You've, you've been through all the learning and all the early experiencing you've you, you know, in your body. What works for you and what doesn't the question is, are you, are you like tapping into that paying attention to it? Are you honoring that? Are you curious about that? Is that, is that part of your like relevant awareness and if it is then hell yeah. 

You're like, you know, you're kind of thriving then. So not everyone can work with an intimacy coach and we don't want to just go to strangers and sit real close to see when our boundaries are, but, I will provide your contact information in the show notes for this conversation. 

Bree Luck: And I hope that people who feel that they could use some help. In this area, we'll consider reaching out to an intimacy coach. Like you, it, it sounds like so many things, it's something you can't just learn from a book, right? It's about it is about having real embodied practice and relationship, but that said, do you have any suggestions for people who just want to have a little more curiosity or connection with themselves as intimate and sexual and relational creatures? 

Jessica: Yeah. I think that creating space. For, you know, we've centered on that word earlier, curiosity, creating space for curiosity around, you know, around things that are happening in your body, especially during these transitions and not, not seeking to, you know, judge them noticing when you do noticing the kind of judgments that you're putting on your own experience of this transition of the symptoms that come up. 

And, you know, I really feel like everybody should rush to the computer right now, Google perimenopause and menopausal symptoms so that you have a good one. I mean, it's, it's, it's a very long list. And if you can kind of keep in mind that, that that's a normal thing for this body to be going through and create the space for it to happen. 

And, and, you know, be curious about how you can interface with it in a way that feels, like trusting and loving of yourself and this whole human experience. I think that's probably the foundational first step in not only surviving this transition, this perimenopause hell people call it, but actually thriving in it and being like, oh, wait, there's, there's a lot here. 

There's a lot of value in like, there's a gift to this. a lot of people who are going through perimenopause do have insomnia. And I think that your suggestion for masturbation is a really great suggestion.  

Oh, the house is quiet, you're all alone. You know, it's the middle of that. 

Like what else is there? It's a beautiful thing, wakens up your, you know, your body and brings your body online. I love it. Thank you for, thank you for bringing that back up again. It's I think it's a really useful tool actually, for managing a lot of uncomfortable things in life, just to flip it and own it as something that's pleasurable. 

Like, you know, there's a, there's actually a book existential kink, it's sort of a, you know what I'm talking about,  

Bree Luck: I'm going to put it in the show notes,  

Jessica: it just talks about taking these experiences of things that we judge as uncomfortable around pleasurable and just like kind of reveling. 

And then it'd be like, oh, this is, this is such a, like, this is such an exquisite insomnia that I have right now. Ooh. It was delicious. I don't mean like, I don't mean like making it only positive. I mean like really taking in the hardness of it and the kind of pain of it and be like, Ooh. And then if you add masturbation to it, then you're, you know, you're leveling up and your existential kink.   

Bree Luck: I just, I love that so much. the gen X teenager in me just lit up like nobody's business so I'm yes. Existential kink, like. Savor let's savor our insomnia.  

 So. I feel like that we've covered a lot right now. And I want to give you space if there's something else that you have in your notes, so that you, as you were up in the middle of the night, thinking about talking something else that you wanted to say, now's a good time.

Jessica: You know, since you asked that question of like, is there something that I wanted to say, so this is going to be like, I'm going to respond to that by sharing a deep insight into one of my great realizations during this time in my life, is that when I think too much about what I'm going to do and say with people, it takes me out of my experience of being with people. 

Jessica: And so for me, I have become what I consider kind of  a circular leader or circular teacher or circular supporter. And that I really respond from an embodied state to what's happening. And if I don't hit all the marks, then that's okay. It's okay. That I, that it's more important to me that I show up and connect with you. 

For instance, Bree in this conversation, really feel what I'm feeling and share what I, you know, share vulnerably, what my body and thoughts are kind of generating in this context. And all my life, I have judged that and felt like I showed up to things unprepared because I guess I was socialized to think that that was a better of greater value than being present, you know? 

So I, so that, that's just what came up for me when you asked me that question. Is there anything else that I certainly did at three 30 in the morning, like, oh, you know, I'm going to have this conversation with Bree in the morning. I wonder what I should talk about, but I also let go of all of that just to be here with you. 

And I, and I do recognize that I'm in a niche that allows for that, you know, if I was a mathematician or I was still in neuroscience and I was giving a presentation, I would need to have more ducks in a row, but  

Bree Luck: Sure. But, but in dealing with real-life human interactions, you are absolutely right there is. 

Nothing greater that you can bring to any conversation, to any interaction, to any connection than presence.

Jessica: beautifully said beautifully said,  

Bree Luck: so thank you for being present with me today. I'm so grateful for you and for all that you are doing for your clients. And I think for the world, 

Jessica: I agree. I actually totally agree. I think that if everybody were like relationally and intimately and sexually literate with themselves, we would not have. The problems that we have currently in our, you know, in our political climate and our international relations, all of these things, I think that deep self-awareness is actually the key to solving climate change, even, you know,  

Bree Luck: I agree. 

I agree. I love that. We're on the same page.  

Jessica: Thank you for having me. Thank you for inviting me to take part in this important conversation around perimenopause. It's really, it's a, it's a, it's a time in my life that is steeped in my heart. So thank you. Well,  

Bree Luck: we're all in it together. 

Whew. 

  Bree Luck: Here are my key takeaways from this conversation with Jessica Childs, if something is coming up for you emotionally or physically, and it feels really weird, make sure that if your doctor doesn't bring up your age and this part of your life or perimenopause. If you have, or have had ovaries, it's a good idea just to ask if this could be a part of it.  

Number two, masturbation is a great way to bring pleasure into uncomfortable experiences. Like insomnia, why not try to infuse a little pleasure the next time you're staring at the wall at 3:00 AM.  

Number three, when we become aware of a boundary, it allows us to be choiceful about how we respond when that boundary is broached. And we can come up with several responses that allow us to engage authentically. And honestly, while still respecting the very real needs that we have.  

This week, I'm going to make a little more room to rehearse a little less and to show up and full vulnerable presence and social interactions. Let me know what resonates with you from this conversation with Jessica Childs. 

If you have comments or questions, shoot us a DM on Instagram @ thelovelyunbecoming and we'll do our best to respond to them on Instagram or on an upcoming episode of the Pause To Go Podcast.