Going feral at fifty! How to reclaim the sensual self and love life

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The gift of the perimenopause is that you start to say no. And even

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though people don't want to hear it, I say it's really good for your

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environment. All these people need to hear that there actually is

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some limitation to your time. There's a value on what you do, and you're

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going to choose who to spend what portions of your day with.

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Welcome to pause to go, the podcast that's all up

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making the most of life's transitions from middle school through

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menopause. I'm your host, Brie luck,

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joining you as we embark on a journey of self discovery and

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questionable decisions. Get ready for heartfelt

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conversations, expert insights, and personal stories

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that'll have you laughing, crying, and saying, thank

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goodness I'm not alone. If you've lost your

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midlife crisis survival kit, we've got you

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covered. So join me, won't you? And together

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we can pause to go

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welcome back to the pause to go podcast. I

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am delighted today to introduce you to my

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new friend, Chloe D'Sousa. She is

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a sex, intimacy and relationship coach who

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specializes in somatic

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approaches to really engaging with yourself

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and with others. She is

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wonderful. I know you're going to love her personal stories

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and also just her general approach to

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how we can move through trauma, how we can shape

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new narratives around aging and relationships

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by engaging with our bodies. The name of

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Chloe's company is feral grace, and I just

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love that because it really

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feels like feral grace being really in your body, feeling

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it completely. And also the beauty

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of that, the elegance of

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that. I'm excited for you to hear

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that in Chloe, to see it if you're watching,

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and to take that with you and hold on to

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it as you move along in your aging

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journey, if you want to take it even

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deeper, if you want to get even more intimate. And that's what we're

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really about here. At pause to go is getting into

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those intimate, real, deeply human

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conversations. Chloe has agreed to do a

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live q a with me in the week that follows

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the release of this episode. We will share the

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exact date on Instagram and Facebook, and I'll

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add it to the show notes as soon as we have it as well. So

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you can look for the date there. And what we are going to do is

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take your anonymous questions.

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So if you have a question after listening to this episode,

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if it has inspired something in you, a question that you

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have about your own sense of aging,

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or how to engage with your body, or

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how pleasure is your birthright and how you

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can access it, send us a question.

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Send us your thoughts. We want to talk about

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it. I want to remind you both in. This

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episode and in the live Q A that a podcast

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episode and a public Q A are

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no replacement for medical care or

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psychological care. We are not offering medical care or psychological

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care in here. We encourage you to

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seek professional help when and if

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you need it. And I know I go to therapy. I know

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Chloe does her own work. We encourage you to take care of

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yourselves in that way. But here we are

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creating a forum for having those discussions.

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So how to leave us your questions? You

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can leave us a voicemail on the postigo podcast

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web page. It used to ask for an email, but

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I believe I've got the settings now where it doesn't

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ask for an email anymore. So you can truly be

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anonymous. Another way to leave us anonymous message

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is by joining the postigo

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podcast Facebook group. That's

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not anonymous, right? The Facebook group is not anonymous, but within the

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group you can leave an anonymous message. You

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can leave an anonymous post. So go there, leave us

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a post, let us know what your question is, and we'd

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love to address it on the live Q A.

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But first, enjoy this episode with

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Chloe of feral Grace.

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Chloe, I'm so happy to

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have you here. I had such a great time just

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planning this conversation with you. I've been looking forward to it all

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week. I'm so happy to be here. Equally. I kept looking in my diary and

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occasionally awkward Sage would catch my eye and I get this little heart

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flutter. It's always a good sign. It is. They

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say that if you have something to plan,

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a way to sort of check and see if it's the

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right thing for you, is to imagine that you have to do it tomorrow.

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So if you're committing to something, you think, how would I feel if I

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were doing this thing tomorrow? And if your first

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thought is, I try to find a way to get out of it, you

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don't do it. I love that. And if your thought is, oh,

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I'm excited about that, then you know that it's in

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alignment and that you're ready for that. So I

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was ready to meet with you. That takes us really lovely

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into letting the body lead. Like, my background is an

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ecstatic dancer and dance movement psychotherapist. And what

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we really want is the heart and the body and the mind to be in

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one place in alignment. So kind of what you're describing is

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this, like, all of you wants to be there because sometimes our

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mind somewhere, or our heart somewhere else, our bodies are tired and

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that little alignment, like, oh, yeah, all of me wants to be there.

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It's a good sign. Today we're going to talk about how

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to get in that alignment, how to find that

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alignment. Yes. And maybe also to recognize how we're out

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of alignment so that we can reach alignment. Yeah.

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And I think that's the thing. Like, these days, with the amount of study

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that I've done and the personal processes on myself, when I find

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the out of alignment place now I know there's gold

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there. Now I almost want to go there because it's like, oh,

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great, I found another piece of myself that takes me

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into a more expanded version of myself or a little bit more

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internal freedom, and that's now a go to place.

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Beautiful. So I'd love to begin with

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a question that I ask every guest who comes on to

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pause to go, which is, how old are you

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and where are you in your midlife journey?

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Oh, fantastic. So I turned 50

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last month, which was fantastic.

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And it was funny, the journey around it. So

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somebody asked me on a car journey, I think, like, oh, how do you feel

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about turning 50? And I think I feel genuinely

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excited. So, first of all, the cultural conditioning of what

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it meant to be 50 came up for me, like, on the way there this

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year. And then it was like, I see so many women

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redefining what 50 means. Like, literally,

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there's people breaking limits in the Olympics and

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they're going out and learning all these things. So this year I learned to

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ski and I learned to surf. And so this is how

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I mean, to carry on. That's amazing.

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And how has that been for you, physically,

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to learn to ski and learn to surf at age

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50? Yeah. So I think the skiing was

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probably the hardest one as a dancer, I have good

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balance. I have good body coordination. What I do notice, because

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I'm also a runner, is that I get injuries more

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often. But with that comes also more deeper

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body listening. So I got off lucky. But I think what

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also occurred through learning something new was a

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choose a really skilled practitioner to teach you whatever it is you're learning.

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Because I'm fussier these days about everything, in

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fact. And secondly, it brought me back into what

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I'm asking other people to do. I've spent over 20

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years studying embodiment and body movement, body

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processes, emotions in the body, and I'll be inviting

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my clients to, oh, we're just going to drop into the body now. I do

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that in a very trauma informed way, but somebody saying, well,

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we're just going to ski down the ski slope. And I was like, that's really

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scary, right? So I was reminded, like, oh, when this

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isn't your home place, you're asking somebody to do. And I

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thought, that's a very sweet reminder of the beginner's mind. I

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love that. Where are you in terms of perimenopause and

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menopause? Oh, we're going there. So I am

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getting to the point where certainly I noticed a few years ago

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that I needed to start to study the perimenopause. So I

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noticed, first of all, my energy levels dipped. And

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then it was like, the very solid ground inside

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of myself that I was used to standing on started to shake.

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And with that shaking, I decided to self educate a bit, because

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it was like I was trying to point out to my family at the time,

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I'm managing this really well. Like, if you knew what was happening inside of

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me, like, my delivery to you guys, it's pretty

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hot. But it was like everything I was standing on was shaking. And I

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started to realize the opportunity to let the shake

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shed the things I didn't want, whether that was ideologies, the

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way I self cared, the way I was choosing to live my

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relationships. There's the handy oestrogen drop that stops

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you over caring for your environment, and it starts to be my turn.

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So my business actually flourished even more because I was

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like, I'm really excited about this. I'm going to take some time out this

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afternoon while you have the really.

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I would say I'm perimenopausal, but I'm cusping now. And I think

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I really wanted to mention the red school, Alexandra

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Pope's work. So there's wise power, which

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really brings in the physical and the spiritual journey that we go on.

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So wise power is this perimenopause and menopausal

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process is when we really step into our authority,

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our identity really hones itself down. So if you imagine

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that each cycle, when you get the critic just before your period,

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that's a preparation ground throughout the whole of your life for the actual

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whole menopause, wherein this perimenopause, which is the

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quickening, faces you with the biggest critic. What do I want to

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let go of in this perimenopause phase? And it starts to

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quicken, like the desperation, but there's an

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urgency to it. So in terms of

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late in 45, there were some things that I thought,

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oh, I'm never going to have that happen. My

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bucket list, what's on it? And then the

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perimenopause came in, it was like, I'm going to make that happen.

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And then you started skiing, and then you started.

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You got me. Yeah, exactly. And

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there's lots of personal crisis. So I do find the client group

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often coming towards me. I'll work with people of all ages, but often

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you've got women saying, how do I not chuck the baby out with the

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bathwater? I want to walk away from? My whole life is a part of that

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perimenopausal process. And alongside that, what was

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happening to me in my perimenopause, because I've always been very

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connected sexually my whole life, I've had damage in other

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areas, but that remained intact, that my sexual energy was

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really rising. Now, physiologically, I could probably get

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told by somebody, that's because it's like, last chance to get a baby in

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before the whole thing changes. But also it was

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an ownership of the fact that I'm very connected sexually, and therefore,

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what am I going to do with it? How am I going to take responsibility

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for educating myself with what I want to do with it and offering space

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to people who might not be as lucky as me? We all know there's

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an orgasm gap, and I'm here maybe to close that.

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I'm here to educate women around body ownership,

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consent, the fact that we all have a capacity to be

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multiorgasmic, to experience a wide range of

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sexual repertoire. And it started to become clear to

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me that I needed to step into a leadership role

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around that. Hence feral grace being born, really.

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And alongside of that, I had a lot of learning to do in other areas

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in my life. But really, the sexual energy rising was a big

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part of the perimenopause for me. That was a gift amongst all the other shake

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up that happens. I love that you've mentioned a few things

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that are recurring themes in my community.

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Number one is getting quite fussy. Getting a little fussy.

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You were speaking specifically about from whom you would seek

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instruction. But also it sounded like

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maybe that's just in general, too, that there's a little more of, like,

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I want this to be right. Am I reading that correctly? Yes,

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you are. Absolutely. Yeah. And then that,

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coupled with moving into think

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it's a biological movement, this is my feeling about this.

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I'm just being really clear about that. But there's a

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movement that's not always reflected in the culture, which I think

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is how we have some of the cognitive dissonance that we have in this

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age, because biologically we are moving towards a place

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of. It's time to receive. I've given and given. I've

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given my body, I've given over to other people, and it's time to

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receive. And the culture is. Wait, what?

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Wait, what? You want something now? What? But you're

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just a woman. Yeah, very much so.

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Nagowski's just written a brilliant workbook called

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Burnout, and I think it's page ten in there, but I could look it up

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for you if you want. And she talks about the role of women giving,

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but also why that causes burnout among women. I was reading

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statistics this morning, actually, on the autoimmune

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diseases that women suffer as well. And it's this over giving, and

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the over giving is acceptable in our society. And the

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very gift, and I really coach people around this, the gift of the perimenopause,

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is that you start to say no. And even though people don't want to hear

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it, I say it's really good for your environment.

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All these people need to hear that there actually is some limitation

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to your time. There's a value on what you do, and you're going to choose

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who to spend, what portions of your day with. And often

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that's with yourself. Like, I choose to spend much more time with

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myself. Yes. I think of myself as an

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ambivert. I probably truly am more extroverted,

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but it just happens that the person I want to spend the most time with

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is myself. I'm an extrovert who wants to spend more time with myself.

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Yes. Ready? Relate. Really relate. You

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mentioned damage, and that makes me think about

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what I've seen that you write and speak about, which is the impact

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of trauma on our ability to

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connect in a multitude of ways. Can

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you talk a little more about what you mean

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by trauma and connection

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and your feelings about that? Yeah, absolutely. I

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think we are so sensitive as human beings, first of

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all, and this is a gift as well as a slight curse. So I've

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worked very early on in my career in adult psychiatry, so I've seen

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very much where people are very, very damaged. With

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the majority of people, we're carrying childhood experiences,

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and they flavor the way we relate in our adult

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life. So a classic example of this would be your attachment

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patterns, whether you're secure, anxious or avoidant,

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attached. And let's be clear, most people are a mix of all three, but you're

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likely to be majority one. And good news,

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you can change your attachment patterns. You can change it

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because maybe you're with someone who helps you get into a more

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secure place. But also the work that I do specifically and

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many others out there, please choose. A good practitioner is to

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start to integrate some of the trauma that's stored in your nervous system

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so that you start to behave differently in your relationships

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and in your environment. So one of the lenses I'm very much

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in favor of I work with changing your inner

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ecology and that will change your outer ecology.

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And one of the things that motivated me was also

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the statistics around women's

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experiences sexually. So in terms of body

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ownership, there's the reintegration of traumatic

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relationships or traumatic, to whatever degree, sexual

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experiences, so that you start to have ownership again.

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So I'm a PTSD survivor, so I've mapped my way out

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of the black holes that you can fall down as a PTSD

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experiencer. And so once you've reintegrated a

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fair bit of trauma, what you want is to I really in favor of people

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owning back themselves so they can have that freedom back to have a

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relationship without expecting

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a certain level of whatever came their way in their

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previous relationships, taking a stand for boundaries, enjoying your body

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again because it's yours no matter what happened to you. And

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that also can be quite a lot of fun once you've got in there.

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It's not the same as psychotherapy, which it's a bit faster than

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that actually, most of the time. Why is it faster? I'm

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curious about that. I'm going to go geeky on you then. I love

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it. There's a plastics to the brain, so the neural

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pathways that are set are changeable. And not only that, you can grow more

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neural pathways. So let's imagine that

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you're very used to being in a relationship where you feel overwhelmed because

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of your avoidant attachment. And once you realize that, oh,

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in my childhood I felt really overwhelmed, there was always somebody coming at me,

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but it's not happening now. You start to grow an awareness and

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create a new neural Pathway that says, I'm safe in this

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relationship, I can ask for what I need. I'm allowed to take

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space and then the thoughts and the feelings to go down that neural

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pathway instead of the same one as your childhood, and it's the same

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with psychotherapy, is a really, really important place. I'm

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a dance movement psychotherapist also. So you want to work out and

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track what your story is, but hopefully you want to get to a

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place where you start to write your own narrative that's really

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exciting because you get to be the heroine. So yes, all of

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these things happen to me, but if you stay on that neural pathway

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compounding your story, talking about it forever. You never get to write

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yourself the ending that you would like. I was maybe the

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victim of all these circumstances, and then I pulled through, and then I did

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some healing on myself, and then I started to attract the person of

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my dreams, and I now am this happy person with

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X-Y-Z with what I actually desired. So

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in dropping into the nervous system and reintegrating some of the

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experiences there, you free yourself up

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and you get to be your own heroine. I'm

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also thinking about what you said earlier in the conversation,

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which was that when you hit up against something

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that feels uncomfortable because we don't always just have a happy ending. Right.

331
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We hit points of discomfort that you now look at them

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as opportunities that it's like, oh, here's a part to dig

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into and to heal a little more, explore a little more, to find out

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more about myself. And that seems like an

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even better happy ending because it's an

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expansive one. It's one that continues to

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unfold from a place of empowerment. It's

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not an ending so much as an

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unfolding. Yeah. No, absolutely. So, for

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example, if you have an area that seems very scary to you,

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sometimes moving towards it is a good thing, sometimes moving away.

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So when I first started my business, I

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thought that somehow it was going to take me really far away from my

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kids. Now, of course, then I'm not going to be invested in my

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business, because actually, my children come first. But actually, that's not my story.

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That was something that was more in my childhood than now.

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So when I used to feel that reaction of, like, the world's

348
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going to end if I expand into this part or I do this next,

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or if I make a decision for myself, there's going to be a loss.

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And then I started to notice when I dared to take that step with

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the help of some good friends, that actually the world

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didn't end in my little corner of the universe, that actually the kids were fine

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and so was I, I just took a break. So there's these little

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moments now where I challenge myself. And it can be also an

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overreaction. If you've got in the

356
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tantra pantheon, there's no good or bad feeling. So

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it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm feeling really overly jealous or

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overly angry, overly sad. You know, there's probably a bit of

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trauma, reintegration, or nervous system integration to

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go on. What's the story? I'm telling myself, why is this

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part being really overprotective when actually what's really going

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on is my friend talked to another friend, or

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there was a small loss, but it's reminding me of a bigger loss. And I

364
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need to just uncouple those events so that I can be more in the now.

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So there's a self support of my own happiness going on as that

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unfolding takes place. Did that make sense? So

367
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much sense. You mentioned Tantra,

368
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and I know that that's a part

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of your work, but in my experience,

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living in a very puritanical America,

371
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tantra just sort of elicits titters. People giggle

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when Tantra comes up. And so I think

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we don't really know what it is. Can you explain what

374
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tantra is and what tantric

375
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means? What it is? What is it? First of all, I

376
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want to talk about the fact that as a five rhythms facilitator,

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teacher, there was a lot of dancers at times that would be into

378
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tantra. And personally, I found the tantra

379
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communities near me to be the kind of people that wanted to

380
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hug me for too long and

381
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eye gaze and all this stuff. And I was like, man, I just need

382
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my boundaries. Like, will you just stop doing that uncomfortable stuff to me?

383
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And I still hold that view. I have to say,

384
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I'm like the reformed, what is the ex smoker or whatever. I'm like,

385
00:23:38,632 --> 00:23:42,402
oh my God, too much. So maybe when I'm talking about

386
00:23:42,456 --> 00:23:46,130
tantra, I'm talking a much more like spiritual philosophy

387
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of not dividing body from

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spirit. So allowing the body to have spiritual

389
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experiences or allowing yourself to include your body in

390
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your spiritual experiences. So I don't want to leave my body.

391
00:24:01,148 --> 00:24:04,506
I would like to be here. It feels like a gift. Instead of trying to

392
00:24:04,528 --> 00:24:08,106
go out of my body to maybe spirit. And I'm really

393
00:24:08,208 --> 00:24:11,946
accepting of all religions and people's choices around them. But instead of trying to

394
00:24:11,968 --> 00:24:15,566
leave my body, I want to go down and in. So a lot of the

395
00:24:15,588 --> 00:24:18,862
problems I faced in my life, I wanted to not

396
00:24:18,916 --> 00:24:22,446
outsource my leadership. I wanted to find out the

397
00:24:22,468 --> 00:24:26,002
answers from within myself. So for me, on some level, the fact

398
00:24:26,056 --> 00:24:29,774
that a tantric lens said that anger

399
00:24:29,822 --> 00:24:33,394
is just an energy, jealousy is just an energy. And to actually deeply go

400
00:24:33,432 --> 00:24:37,010
into a state where I could properly experience that, because I'm

401
00:24:37,090 --> 00:24:40,774
all about field work, it was helpful to me. But

402
00:24:40,812 --> 00:24:44,582
I think there's so many dodgy tantra schools out there,

403
00:24:44,636 --> 00:24:48,326
I wouldn't want to suggest that anybody go and find it for have a

404
00:24:48,348 --> 00:24:52,166
particular experience. I'm much more about teaching people about consent

405
00:24:52,198 --> 00:24:55,974
with their own bodies first, teaching them about simple experiences.

406
00:24:56,022 --> 00:24:59,020
They can have at home in order to get more in touch with themselves,

407
00:24:59,470 --> 00:25:03,166
learning about relationships and how to negotiate them.

408
00:25:03,348 --> 00:25:07,034
I think the more spiritual aspects of that in terms of acceptance

409
00:25:07,082 --> 00:25:10,846
of all emotions, has been very helpful. And certainly I

410
00:25:10,868 --> 00:25:14,686
can play with my own kundalini rising, which, because I

411
00:25:14,708 --> 00:25:17,874
have a lot of sexual energy, I can play with that I can manifest through

412
00:25:17,912 --> 00:25:21,550
that. I can put all that libido into my creativity

413
00:25:21,630 --> 00:25:25,446
or my joy or my love. That's playful. But,

414
00:25:25,548 --> 00:25:29,222
yeah, I still don't want to eye gaze with strangers. You

415
00:25:29,276 --> 00:25:33,014
really do touch on something important, which is

416
00:25:33,052 --> 00:25:36,786
the difference between a philosophy and a culture.

417
00:25:36,978 --> 00:25:40,298
Culture often gets wrapped up in dogma or

418
00:25:40,384 --> 00:25:43,990
in habits or in manifestations

419
00:25:44,070 --> 00:25:47,642
of the philosophy that maybe don't resonate with

420
00:25:47,696 --> 00:25:51,498
everyone. But like you said before, you don't have to throw

421
00:25:51,514 --> 00:25:54,734
the baby out with the bathwater. You can still

422
00:25:54,932 --> 00:25:58,734
enjoy or get interested in or explore the

423
00:25:58,772 --> 00:26:02,298
philosophy of tantra, of really

424
00:26:02,484 --> 00:26:05,810
connecting the body and spirit and being

425
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,618
PRESENt with both in this moment without

426
00:26:09,704 --> 00:26:12,802
Having to join a cult. Yeah.

427
00:26:12,936 --> 00:26:16,558
Good. You're clearly a clever woman to make that distinction.

428
00:26:16,654 --> 00:26:20,406
Yeah. And really take what's helpful from anything in the world and

429
00:26:20,428 --> 00:26:24,214
leave the rest. I want our bodies to be our homes, and I want

430
00:26:24,252 --> 00:26:27,946
our hearts to be able to love ourselves and negotiate the

431
00:26:27,968 --> 00:26:31,642
relationships we want to have. And just the fact my

432
00:26:31,696 --> 00:26:35,034
stepmother died many years ago, and I watched my

433
00:26:35,072 --> 00:26:38,694
father live even more, which was a brave

434
00:26:38,742 --> 00:26:42,442
choice, because she couldn't be there. He wanted

435
00:26:42,496 --> 00:26:46,286
to enjoy what was on offer even more because she would have wanted to

436
00:26:46,308 --> 00:26:49,994
be there having that experience. And somehow

437
00:26:50,042 --> 00:26:53,854
tantra is a little bit in there for me, or the philosophy of embodiment, because

438
00:26:53,892 --> 00:26:57,666
it's like I get to breathe air, I get to taste food, I get

439
00:26:57,688 --> 00:27:00,900
to kiss my lover, I get to talk with you.

440
00:27:01,270 --> 00:27:05,026
You're thousands of miles away, and there's something about just the gratitude of

441
00:27:05,048 --> 00:27:08,120
being alive and wanting to live really fully and be here

442
00:27:09,290 --> 00:27:12,950
that marked me from. That experience and that you feel

443
00:27:13,020 --> 00:27:16,114
that. And that your father. I think of your father

444
00:27:16,242 --> 00:27:19,866
SPECificALlY FeeLing that EVEN as he. Is he still

445
00:27:19,888 --> 00:27:23,274
alive? Is he still with us? Yeah. He's said that he has

446
00:27:23,312 --> 00:27:26,746
embraced this as things may be

447
00:27:26,768 --> 00:27:30,486
physically more challenging, even as he may. I don't know.

448
00:27:30,528 --> 00:27:33,854
I don't know what his situation is, but I know that with

449
00:27:33,892 --> 00:27:37,360
aging can come a host of

450
00:27:37,810 --> 00:27:41,374
physical maladies. Certainly this is what we hear from the

451
00:27:41,412 --> 00:27:45,146
culture, right? That, oh, you're getting older. Something hurts. You wake

452
00:27:45,178 --> 00:27:48,866
up every day, something hurts. If nothing else, it can change our

453
00:27:48,888 --> 00:27:52,706
mindset so that we feel like we are incapable of doing some

454
00:27:52,728 --> 00:27:56,482
of the things that we might have done when we were younger.

455
00:27:56,626 --> 00:28:00,230
So for your father to embrace that is

456
00:28:00,300 --> 00:28:03,862
really inspirational to hear

457
00:28:03,916 --> 00:28:07,670
about. I love to hear of older people who are

458
00:28:07,740 --> 00:28:11,466
really seizing life in a new way. I think I mentioned to

459
00:28:11,488 --> 00:28:15,194
you before that I have a friend who is older. She's in her

460
00:28:15,232 --> 00:28:18,378
eighty? S, and she's taken a new lover just

461
00:28:18,464 --> 00:28:21,870
recently, and she's my idol.

462
00:28:22,370 --> 00:28:26,026
Yeah. And I positively seek those idols out. I wrote

463
00:28:26,058 --> 00:28:29,838
an Instagram this week on myth busting around the

464
00:28:29,844 --> 00:28:33,406
topic of sexuality. And one of the myths that I wanted to

465
00:28:33,428 --> 00:28:37,006
bust in there was like that old people don't have sex.

466
00:28:37,118 --> 00:28:40,802
You can choose not to have sex. That's absolutely, like, your choice. And

467
00:28:40,856 --> 00:28:44,260
definitely the older you get, make all the choices you want.

468
00:28:45,130 --> 00:28:48,754
But there was a joke that they might not use their knees

469
00:28:48,802 --> 00:28:52,182
so much. But apart from that, I love it.

470
00:28:52,316 --> 00:28:56,038
Speaking of different philosophies and ways

471
00:28:56,124 --> 00:28:59,514
into working with the body, tantra is

472
00:28:59,552 --> 00:29:03,130
one. Five rhythms is another. Do you have

473
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,954
any heroes in the field or any people

474
00:29:06,992 --> 00:29:10,734
you really admire whose work has influenced the way that

475
00:29:10,772 --> 00:29:14,080
you work with people? Yeah, absolutely.

476
00:29:14,690 --> 00:29:18,446
In fact, I wrote about this in my how

477
00:29:18,468 --> 00:29:21,886
to live a feral life chapter, which was recently published. But my

478
00:29:21,908 --> 00:29:25,090
hero certainly is Bessel van der Kolk.

479
00:29:25,510 --> 00:29:28,994
A very moving story of the way his life

480
00:29:29,032 --> 00:29:32,014
progressed. But he basically really brought

481
00:29:32,062 --> 00:29:35,794
embodiment in as a thing. So his book

482
00:29:35,832 --> 00:29:39,334
is called the body keeps the score, and I could

483
00:29:39,372 --> 00:29:43,122
reread that book 1000 times. So, Bessel van der Kolk,

484
00:29:43,186 --> 00:29:46,930
really, the quote that moves me most is trauma

485
00:29:47,010 --> 00:29:50,540
is not stored in the event. It's stored in the body.

486
00:29:50,910 --> 00:29:54,746
So the understanding of embodiment, therefore, is that when we

487
00:29:54,768 --> 00:29:58,522
drop into the body, you might find whatever happened

488
00:29:58,576 --> 00:30:02,426
in that moment is still somehow in your body. So embodiment helps you

489
00:30:02,448 --> 00:30:06,286
defrost that, which is why I spent so long on dance floors. I was

490
00:30:06,308 --> 00:30:09,994
defrosting a lot of what was stored in my body. Gabrielle Roth,

491
00:30:10,042 --> 00:30:13,694
my friend and teacher, said to me, chloe, how long will

492
00:30:13,732 --> 00:30:17,006
your hands cry? I said, I don't

493
00:30:17,038 --> 00:30:20,020
know. Yeah,

494
00:30:21,670 --> 00:30:25,426
just taking that in for a moment. My hands had a lot of crying

495
00:30:25,458 --> 00:30:28,934
to do. And

496
00:30:28,972 --> 00:30:32,726
then luckily, I danced long enough that my hands no

497
00:30:32,748 --> 00:30:36,294
longer cry. So whatever event was installed in those

498
00:30:36,332 --> 00:30:40,026
hands, through embodying it, I've released it. And they

499
00:30:40,048 --> 00:30:43,590
have now so much to. Say in analogous

500
00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:47,046
form, moving from dance therapy to drama

501
00:30:47,078 --> 00:30:50,486
therapy, which is my background. The creator of

502
00:30:50,528 --> 00:30:53,786
psychodrama was a man named J. L. Moreno,

503
00:30:53,978 --> 00:30:57,466
and he had a very similar quote, but it's slightly

504
00:30:57,498 --> 00:31:01,230
different. And that was the body remembers what the mind

505
00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:05,090
forgets, which is lovely.

506
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:09,394
And what I have also found in

507
00:31:09,432 --> 00:31:12,942
exploring that side of it, once we've moved

508
00:31:13,006 --> 00:31:16,550
through some of the trauma, is that the body also

509
00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:20,134
remembers joy. Yeah. It's not just the pain

510
00:31:20,252 --> 00:31:23,558
and sorrow. It's also that

511
00:31:23,644 --> 00:31:27,334
feeling of excitement, of childlike curiosity that

512
00:31:27,372 --> 00:31:31,098
wells up in your chest and shoulders and hands, too.

513
00:31:31,184 --> 00:31:34,860
Right. Like, where do you feel that in your body?

514
00:31:35,230 --> 00:31:39,018
And so bringing those two together is a

515
00:31:39,024 --> 00:31:42,160
real opportunity for exploring ecstasy. Absolutely.

516
00:31:42,530 --> 00:31:46,334
And really, we live in an era right now where healing through

517
00:31:46,372 --> 00:31:49,966
pleasure is becoming much more key, which I

518
00:31:49,988 --> 00:31:53,626
find quite deeply feminine as it goes, that actually bringing

519
00:31:53,658 --> 00:31:57,502
pleasure to some of the pain or simply experiencing pleasure

520
00:31:57,646 --> 00:32:00,500
is a way to really say thank you to life.

521
00:32:01,270 --> 00:32:04,866
And that brings me to, you had. I think it was on your

522
00:32:04,888 --> 00:32:08,690
website, there's a quote that you said, we aren't

523
00:32:08,770 --> 00:32:12,326
scared of age impacting our sexual drive

524
00:32:12,428 --> 00:32:16,086
and human desires. Yeah. How do

525
00:32:16,108 --> 00:32:19,754
you help people move away from that

526
00:32:19,792 --> 00:32:23,382
place of fear? How do you help people not be. Scared

527
00:32:23,526 --> 00:32:27,206
of aging or their sexuality? People are scared

528
00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:28,060
of both.

529
00:32:31,630 --> 00:32:35,262
First of all, the power of narrative is incredible. So I really

530
00:32:35,316 --> 00:32:38,766
mean it. And I work with clients over this. It's like, what narrative? A, are

531
00:32:38,788 --> 00:32:42,602
you telling yourself? But b, I think you worked in theater and storytelling.

532
00:32:42,666 --> 00:32:46,218
What role do I want to give myself? And I want to give myself a

533
00:32:46,244 --> 00:32:49,790
role where I age in a certain way, given whatever limitations

534
00:32:49,870 --> 00:32:53,554
come my way. And I've looked at role models around that, and so

535
00:32:53,592 --> 00:32:56,994
I will help people write their own scripts around that, write their own

536
00:32:57,032 --> 00:33:00,534
narratives so that they're very aware of. Are you

537
00:33:00,652 --> 00:33:04,422
absorbing the culture that says, a woman of 49

538
00:33:04,476 --> 00:33:08,274
is now on the shelf and no longer sexually attractive? Or are you writing

539
00:33:08,322 --> 00:33:11,782
a narrative where, like, I'm in touch with my sensuality,

540
00:33:11,926 --> 00:33:14,986
it is now active in this way for me, and I take care of it.

541
00:33:15,008 --> 00:33:18,682
But actually, you're likely to be a better lover than a 20

542
00:33:18,736 --> 00:33:22,258
year old. We study things, and you get degrees.

543
00:33:22,374 --> 00:33:26,174
And the more years you spend doing something, normally, the MORe ExPerience and

544
00:33:26,212 --> 00:33:30,062
the better you get at it. And I really see sex as the same

545
00:33:30,116 --> 00:33:33,790
thing. So hopefully, you've learned more about yourself

546
00:33:33,860 --> 00:33:37,666
and you've learned how to attune to other people more. So, actually, at

547
00:33:37,688 --> 00:33:41,326
49, your sexuality technically should be more alive

548
00:33:41,358 --> 00:33:45,006
than ever. And if you go back to civilizations that

549
00:33:45,048 --> 00:33:48,646
predate some of the more dominant religions today, there

550
00:33:48,668 --> 00:33:52,210
was the more earth based belief systems

551
00:33:52,370 --> 00:33:56,018
that women and their fertility and women who are older

552
00:33:56,114 --> 00:33:59,914
were revered as wise people. And I think that probably also

553
00:34:00,112 --> 00:34:03,446
included their sexuality. We know a few tricks

554
00:34:03,478 --> 00:34:07,130
now. I also

555
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,542
feel like bringing us back to talking

556
00:34:10,596 --> 00:34:14,414
about really honoring ourselves if

557
00:34:14,452 --> 00:34:17,790
we can be better lovers to ourselves.

558
00:34:18,130 --> 00:34:21,914
That's the key. Yeah, we're back to myth busting

559
00:34:21,962 --> 00:34:25,806
again, really. My degree is in social aNthropology.

560
00:34:25,918 --> 00:34:29,762
So culturally, there's quite a lot of weight on women

561
00:34:29,816 --> 00:34:33,394
that somehow were in service. Some of that service I've been really

562
00:34:33,432 --> 00:34:36,280
glad about. I've loved BrEastfeeding my children.

563
00:34:36,970 --> 00:34:40,626
I loved being pregnant. I accidentally gave birth

564
00:34:40,658 --> 00:34:44,070
to my son, free birthed him at home without a Medic.

565
00:34:47,370 --> 00:34:50,842
So I've enjoyed that level of service, that level of connection to Life

566
00:34:50,896 --> 00:34:54,586
Itself, the opportunity to give birth. But also there's a

567
00:34:54,608 --> 00:34:58,266
sense of entitlement in our culture, particularly in the

568
00:34:58,288 --> 00:35:02,106
west, but possibly predominantly on the planet

569
00:35:02,138 --> 00:35:05,454
earth, where Women's sexuality, herself, with

570
00:35:05,492 --> 00:35:09,022
herself, has been given Very little space. So often

571
00:35:09,076 --> 00:35:12,400
I'll start off with clients and I'm like, do you date yourself?

572
00:35:13,090 --> 00:35:16,786
Whether that's an evening in the bath or going out to a

573
00:35:16,808 --> 00:35:20,626
restaurant. The level of getting to know your own body first so that

574
00:35:20,648 --> 00:35:24,274
when somebody else touches it, you can say, ah, little bit more like

575
00:35:24,312 --> 00:35:28,078
this. This is how I work. This is how much time

576
00:35:28,104 --> 00:35:31,654
I need here before we go to there. So that makes us a

577
00:35:31,692 --> 00:35:35,526
excellent lovers. It keeps us safe. And safety in lovemaking is

578
00:35:35,548 --> 00:35:38,680
so key for unraveling into an undone experience.

579
00:35:39,050 --> 00:35:42,794
So, yes, technically, taking more and more time with

580
00:35:42,832 --> 00:35:46,666
yourself. And if I had one suggestion to make

581
00:35:46,688 --> 00:35:50,346
to anyone, it would be slow down. Women's bodies love that. And I'm all for

582
00:35:50,368 --> 00:35:53,838
a quickie, but women's bodies love slowing down.

583
00:35:54,004 --> 00:35:57,534
You can even have a quickie with some slowing down. Just do

584
00:35:57,572 --> 00:36:00,670
less. Just do less in the amount of time. Yes,

585
00:36:00,820 --> 00:36:04,094
exactly. You don't have to do

586
00:36:04,132 --> 00:36:07,954
everything in a short amount of time. Yeah. You can just

587
00:36:07,992 --> 00:36:11,714
do one or two things fully. I love you for

588
00:36:11,752 --> 00:36:15,220
that. I love you for that. This phrase that you just used,

589
00:36:15,770 --> 00:36:19,320
unraveling into an undone experience.

590
00:36:19,770 --> 00:36:22,760
Yeah, Chloe, that's beautiful.

591
00:36:23,770 --> 00:36:26,840
To be undone. Yeah.

592
00:36:28,030 --> 00:36:31,514
So you mentioned slowing down. You

593
00:36:31,552 --> 00:36:35,226
mentioned dating yourself, becoming a

594
00:36:35,248 --> 00:36:39,098
lover to yourself. It makes me think of Julia Cameron. Do you

595
00:36:39,104 --> 00:36:42,240
know her work? Yes. The artist's way.

596
00:36:42,690 --> 00:36:46,446
Seminal book for creatives. I don't know a single creative who

597
00:36:46,468 --> 00:36:50,046
has not been through at least the first four weeks of the

598
00:36:50,068 --> 00:36:53,730
artist's way. And then we fall off the wagon.

599
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:58,222
Been there, done that. But the idea of an artist

600
00:36:58,286 --> 00:37:02,066
date is key. And I will say that

601
00:37:02,168 --> 00:37:05,350
I probably first read that book 30 years ago,

602
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:09,270
but the artist date is something that I've really stuck with.

603
00:37:09,340 --> 00:37:13,094
And the thought of having a date with

604
00:37:13,132 --> 00:37:16,770
myself, that's also a sensual date. That's a romantic

605
00:37:16,850 --> 00:37:20,310
date. That's not just feeding

606
00:37:20,470 --> 00:37:24,154
the artists in me, but feeding the

607
00:37:24,352 --> 00:37:27,020
feral beast in me.

608
00:37:27,950 --> 00:37:31,420
So I love that you bring that up

609
00:37:31,730 --> 00:37:35,006
because we need that. I need that I make a date with

610
00:37:35,028 --> 00:37:38,542
myself. Put it in my calendar. So what are three

611
00:37:38,596 --> 00:37:42,406
strategies that our listener could use to shed

612
00:37:42,458 --> 00:37:46,274
some of the shame around sensuality and

613
00:37:46,312 --> 00:37:49,442
to really move toward that place of being

614
00:37:49,576 --> 00:37:50,610
undone?

615
00:37:53,590 --> 00:37:57,334
The first thing that really arises in me when I hear that request is

616
00:37:57,372 --> 00:38:00,854
not to put pressure on yourself. Because when you put

617
00:38:00,892 --> 00:38:03,734
pressure on yourself, there's a sense of

618
00:38:03,772 --> 00:38:07,446
contraction. And so in order to move towards

619
00:38:07,548 --> 00:38:10,966
a state of undone, what we want is a sense of expansion.

620
00:38:11,158 --> 00:38:14,794
So deepening and regulating your breath is a great place to

621
00:38:14,832 --> 00:38:18,666
start whatever you're doing. And then secondly, when you

622
00:38:18,688 --> 00:38:22,058
talked about the artist date and your creativity,

623
00:38:22,234 --> 00:38:26,026
sexuality and creativity, obviously, because it's

624
00:38:26,058 --> 00:38:29,854
how we create babies, they're very, very connected. So you get

625
00:38:29,892 --> 00:38:32,720
creative with what your body would like.

626
00:38:33,490 --> 00:38:37,314
So that could be as simple as ask it. I actually do

627
00:38:37,352 --> 00:38:41,202
this asking your body what it wants to wear. Very

628
00:38:41,256 --> 00:38:45,106
subtle sensuality to that, whether it's a color or a cloth or

629
00:38:45,128 --> 00:38:48,754
a fabric. And then there's other ways that you

630
00:38:48,792 --> 00:38:52,486
think, well, I'm not a bath person, I'm a shower person, or

631
00:38:52,588 --> 00:38:56,418
I love scents. So I'm going to get myself some really nice oil and I'm

632
00:38:56,434 --> 00:39:00,174
just going to spend 20 minutes just massaging my legs

633
00:39:00,242 --> 00:39:03,914
or my vulva or my lower back or my belly. And

634
00:39:03,952 --> 00:39:07,670
when you're doing that, you were very pragmatic.

635
00:39:07,830 --> 00:39:11,422
We're always in a hurry, but take some time so that there's actually love coming

636
00:39:11,476 --> 00:39:13,680
out of your hands towards you.

637
00:39:15,730 --> 00:39:18,942
There's actually love coming out of your hands towards

638
00:39:18,996 --> 00:39:22,846
you. And you can add to that if you get going on

639
00:39:22,868 --> 00:39:26,674
this, like actually telling yourself, and you could do this with

640
00:39:26,712 --> 00:39:30,194
your whole body or different body parts, but also like your

641
00:39:30,232 --> 00:39:33,922
sexual anatomy, love praise. So without any

642
00:39:33,976 --> 00:39:37,478
pressure. Oh, I love you. You look so beautiful.

643
00:39:37,644 --> 00:39:41,142
I love the way you're just that color, you smell so

644
00:39:41,196 --> 00:39:44,662
good, or that shape that you make just

645
00:39:44,716 --> 00:39:48,418
there. And talking to your own body in this way really brings

646
00:39:48,434 --> 00:39:52,010
it home to itself that it knows it's getting this attitude of love

647
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,338
because our bodies are exposed to a whole heap of

648
00:39:55,344 --> 00:39:58,694
criticism. So already you're starting to awaken the sensual

649
00:39:58,742 --> 00:40:02,494
self because you want to seduce it, because it

650
00:40:02,532 --> 00:40:06,366
may have shied away, because it's had some experiences that didn't make it feel so

651
00:40:06,388 --> 00:40:10,222
good. Or you just got busy, you got rushed. So

652
00:40:10,276 --> 00:40:13,838
taking some time. Or if you're a music

653
00:40:13,924 --> 00:40:17,714
person, you put on some music and you think, I'll just dance to one

654
00:40:17,752 --> 00:40:21,522
track today. That can be as you wash up

655
00:40:21,576 --> 00:40:25,138
or post washing up or as you get dressed. That's a

656
00:40:25,144 --> 00:40:28,918
playful one. If you want

657
00:40:28,924 --> 00:40:32,566
to go a little bit deeper, I would really suggest writing a love letter to

658
00:40:32,588 --> 00:40:35,974
yourself. And that can be to a body part,

659
00:40:36,172 --> 00:40:39,698
whatever you call that body part, and telling it all the things that you think

660
00:40:39,724 --> 00:40:43,366
that body part needs to hear. Thank you for giving birth

661
00:40:43,398 --> 00:40:46,954
to two children so incredibly. Or, like,

662
00:40:47,152 --> 00:40:50,586
we've come a long way, me and you. And I really love the way that

663
00:40:50,608 --> 00:40:54,270
you were here for the whole time. I'm sorry I forgot you at moment,

664
00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:58,062
and I'm going to try and remember you a little bit more. And about

665
00:40:58,116 --> 00:41:01,582
that time, I'm sorry that we had that experience, but we're here

666
00:41:01,636 --> 00:41:05,146
now and today this is what we're going to do.

667
00:41:05,268 --> 00:41:08,882
I promise to try and connect with you more. So

668
00:41:08,936 --> 00:41:12,100
writing a love letter to a body part or yourself. Yeah,

669
00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:16,840
really great ways. I think sometimes when we think of

670
00:41:17,290 --> 00:41:20,390
writing a love letter to ourselves or to our body

671
00:41:20,460 --> 00:41:23,702
parts, we can go into a place

672
00:41:23,756 --> 00:41:27,490
of what we feel needs to be positivity,

673
00:41:27,570 --> 00:41:31,034
which can be toxic positivity. Maybe we don't really believe it,

674
00:41:31,152 --> 00:41:34,582
right? Maybe the damage or the trauma, the bodily

675
00:41:34,646 --> 00:41:38,474
trauma that we have is such that we don't believe it

676
00:41:38,512 --> 00:41:42,222
when we say something kind to our body

677
00:41:42,276 --> 00:41:45,502
parts. But this idea of making

678
00:41:45,556 --> 00:41:49,166
amends and recognizing the fullness of a

679
00:41:49,188 --> 00:41:52,786
relationship that you have with your body, the

680
00:41:52,808 --> 00:41:56,322
fullness of a relationship that I have with the breasts that have

681
00:41:56,456 --> 00:41:59,874
breastfed two children and have

682
00:41:59,992 --> 00:42:03,650
changed and are changing almost every day before

683
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:07,222
my very eyes, acknowledging the fullness of

684
00:42:07,276 --> 00:42:10,854
that relationship rather than just

685
00:42:10,892 --> 00:42:14,566
saying, I think you're beautiful. Yes, it may

686
00:42:14,588 --> 00:42:18,138
be. I think you're beautiful. But it's also really,

687
00:42:18,304 --> 00:42:21,562
thank you for all that we've been through together. Thank

688
00:42:21,616 --> 00:42:25,402
you. Really

689
00:42:25,456 --> 00:42:28,442
beautiful. I also have to say your honey pot

690
00:42:28,576 --> 00:42:32,320
meditation. Yes. For people who are,

691
00:42:32,690 --> 00:42:36,334
because sometimes we are

692
00:42:36,372 --> 00:42:40,074
busy. And when you say not to put pressure

693
00:42:40,122 --> 00:42:43,586
on yourself, sometimes if we have a lot of

694
00:42:43,608 --> 00:42:46,580
fear or anxiety around

695
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:50,674
our sensuality or sexuality, it's nice to have a

696
00:42:50,712 --> 00:42:54,002
guide. It's nice to have someone lead us

697
00:42:54,136 --> 00:42:57,846
through that exploration. And your

698
00:42:57,868 --> 00:43:01,094
honey pot meditation is lovely. I did it this

699
00:43:01,132 --> 00:43:04,582
morning. Oh, good. I slowed down

700
00:43:04,716 --> 00:43:08,566
and I enjoyed it. And people can get that on your website,

701
00:43:08,668 --> 00:43:12,438
right? They can get that on my website, yeah. And if you want to drop

702
00:43:12,454 --> 00:43:15,740
the link in the show notes. That's an easy way as well. Yeah,

703
00:43:16,270 --> 00:43:19,962
it is nice to have a held space, it really is. And

704
00:43:20,016 --> 00:43:23,726
the other thing is not shaming yourself. And I think you've touched or alluded to

705
00:43:23,748 --> 00:43:27,422
that in your previous comment, because the great thing about

706
00:43:27,476 --> 00:43:31,262
bodies and mind body intelligence, which is a concept or

707
00:43:31,316 --> 00:43:34,958
a pragmatism that I work with, is there's a really good reason

708
00:43:35,044 --> 00:43:38,514
normally that bodies shut down, and so to trust

709
00:43:38,712 --> 00:43:42,514
the beauty of your body's own logic so you don't make it wrong for

710
00:43:42,552 --> 00:43:46,046
shutting down. But perhaps sometimes we inquire

711
00:43:46,158 --> 00:43:49,814
or we want to start encouraging it out to

712
00:43:49,852 --> 00:43:53,526
play again. But I would never rush anybody. And it's really finding out

713
00:43:53,628 --> 00:43:57,190
what was the intelligence behind that. Oh, you shut down

714
00:43:57,260 --> 00:44:01,110
because there was a kid in 7th grade maybe that continually

715
00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:04,742
told you you were ugly or that your knees were fat

716
00:44:04,806 --> 00:44:08,458
or whatever it was, and then you've never felt the

717
00:44:08,464 --> 00:44:12,286
same about your knees since. And actually we need to reeducate your

718
00:44:12,308 --> 00:44:15,680
knees to say, hey, I actually love you.

719
00:44:16,290 --> 00:44:19,854
I actually think the pointy bits on you are like just the

720
00:44:19,892 --> 00:44:23,706
most incredible asset, or I have felt ashamed

721
00:44:23,738 --> 00:44:27,362
about you, but like, I'm going to bring you home because

722
00:44:27,496 --> 00:44:31,250
that story is outdated now and the boy in 7th grade has

723
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,086
probably got his own thing going on by now. Anyway. Love that

724
00:44:35,128 --> 00:44:38,226
knees are getting so much attention in this episode.

725
00:44:38,418 --> 00:44:42,146
Knees deserve more attention. Let's do an ode to the knees.

726
00:44:42,178 --> 00:44:44,360
The ode to the knees. Yeah.

727
00:44:45,770 --> 00:44:49,526
Lovely. So how can people get

728
00:44:49,548 --> 00:44:53,194
in touch with you? I offer a free call to anybody that wants to

729
00:44:53,232 --> 00:44:57,066
work with me, and the trouble is that most people do want to work

730
00:44:57,088 --> 00:45:00,906
with me after free call. But you

731
00:45:00,928 --> 00:45:04,206
can get quite a lot out of that free call, which is probably why they

732
00:45:04,228 --> 00:45:07,790
want to carry on. And that's a good way to feel

733
00:45:07,860 --> 00:45:11,454
out, like what you might want to work with, but also explore. Ask me any

734
00:45:11,492 --> 00:45:15,186
question you want about what is embodiment? How does that work? What will we

735
00:45:15,208 --> 00:45:18,674
do? You can head over to my website and take a look over

736
00:45:18,712 --> 00:45:21,762
there. I'm running a course next

737
00:45:21,816 --> 00:45:25,474
spring, 2024. I've written that

738
00:45:25,512 --> 00:45:29,206
because your sexuality and your relationship with your body is

739
00:45:29,228 --> 00:45:32,534
very connected to your leadership and the decisions you're making.

740
00:45:32,732 --> 00:45:36,582
So you can hop on that waitlist. Because once you start to really connect

741
00:45:36,636 --> 00:45:40,486
with your body, it starts to lead you into the direction probably that you

742
00:45:40,508 --> 00:45:43,994
want to be going in. And that might be large or small ways that might

743
00:45:44,032 --> 00:45:47,706
be a travel plan, or it might be negotiating your

744
00:45:47,728 --> 00:45:51,406
relationships differently, or telling your older children that they actually need to

745
00:45:51,428 --> 00:45:54,990
pay the food bill now. So that's another

746
00:45:55,060 --> 00:45:58,590
way that they can connect with me. So that's a

747
00:45:58,660 --> 00:46:01,742
sexuality and leadership. That also sounds like

748
00:46:01,876 --> 00:46:05,106
sovereignty to me. The course is called sex and

749
00:46:05,128 --> 00:46:07,940
sovereignty. Oh, great. Look at

750
00:46:08,870 --> 00:46:12,382
to. So Chloe and I realized our brains

751
00:46:12,446 --> 00:46:16,134
must work somewhat similarly because we

752
00:46:16,172 --> 00:46:19,970
were chatting. So Chloe's company is called Feral Grace,

753
00:46:20,130 --> 00:46:23,906
which is just such a great name. And I was telling

754
00:46:23,938 --> 00:46:27,574
her that recently, as people have been asking me

755
00:46:27,612 --> 00:46:31,338
about my life after our children have left home,

756
00:46:31,504 --> 00:46:34,858
I've been saying that I've gone feral. So

757
00:46:35,024 --> 00:46:38,586
now we want to get a sign for our door, like the

758
00:46:38,608 --> 00:46:42,266
gone fishing signs that people put up when they've left their

759
00:46:42,288 --> 00:46:45,678
office or left their shop. And we want one that says gone

760
00:46:45,764 --> 00:46:49,466
feral. We're going to work on that. We're going to get it. We're

761
00:46:49,498 --> 00:46:53,294
both getting it. And we've definitely made a feral club now.

762
00:46:53,492 --> 00:46:56,990
Yeah, the feral. Definitely a thing. The feral

763
00:46:57,070 --> 00:47:00,690
fifty s. I love it. I will put links to

764
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,258
all of this in the show notes. We're going to do a

765
00:47:04,344 --> 00:47:08,046
live q and a sometime around the time that this episode

766
00:47:08,158 --> 00:47:11,974
comes out. Yeah, by the time the episode airs, we'll have more

767
00:47:12,012 --> 00:47:15,846
information put together about that. But I'm really excited about doing that

768
00:47:15,868 --> 00:47:19,466
with you and having you answer all the hot and

769
00:47:19,488 --> 00:47:23,146
heated questions that people, I'm sure have about how

770
00:47:23,168 --> 00:47:26,954
to introduce a little more feral energy into

771
00:47:26,992 --> 00:47:30,794
their lives. Yeah, I think it would be great if also people

772
00:47:30,832 --> 00:47:34,394
can ask them anonymously, which means you get to have the topic

773
00:47:34,442 --> 00:47:37,966
answered. That actually the burning question that you'd never say out

774
00:47:37,988 --> 00:47:41,454
loud. Or maybe you would. Yeah,

775
00:47:41,652 --> 00:47:45,454
I'll ask it for you. You just send me the question and I'll ask it

776
00:47:45,492 --> 00:47:49,322
for you. Yeah, I probably had the same question. She's gone feral.

777
00:47:49,386 --> 00:47:52,986
It'll be fine. Thank you so much for sharing

778
00:47:53,098 --> 00:47:56,310
your time and your peace and your

779
00:47:56,460 --> 00:48:00,118
glorious energy with me here today.

780
00:48:00,204 --> 00:48:04,054
I'm really looking forward to our Q-A-I. Love hanging out with you,

781
00:48:04,092 --> 00:48:07,634
Brie. Yeah. Thank you for listening to the pause to go podcast.

782
00:48:07,762 --> 00:48:11,414
Special thanks to Codebase, coworking and WTJU radio for

783
00:48:11,452 --> 00:48:14,770
their support. This has been an awkward,

784
00:48:14,850 --> 00:48:15,890
sage production.