From Esoteric to Practical: Jaclyn Michelle shares the fundamentals of Human Design

Bree: Hey, before I delve into this chat, I want to let you know that I want to help you become a creative change. 

If you are interested in taking on your own change-making project from writing a screenplay to starting your own podcast or launching a new business or non-profit organization, I'd love to talk to you about what your dreaming up and how I can support you as you bring it to fruition.

The application is found on my website@thelovelyunbecoming.com. And I'm only accepting for clients. So if you're interested, you know, fill out the application, let's chat. in today's episode, I talk with Jaclyn Michelle about a mystical tool that I've really enjoyed exploring over the last couple of years.

And it's called human design. I love Jacqueline's approach to exploring, explaining, and sharing human design because she finds a balance that feels very manageable for curious skeptic like me, Jacqueline is a human design chart, alchemists and writer who believes that it is vital, that all humans have the resources, time, and energy to hold space in our lives for emotional and spiritual expansion.

Exploration and soul care. she has made it her mission to make tools like human design that can be pretty complex, practical, actionable, and accessible for everyone. I wanted her to come on the podcast because she is a great example of someone who has made an enormous life transformation that was passion centered, creative, and really service oriented.

Jacqueline is a recovering workaholic who left corporate America to launch interior creature.com with the hope of holding the space required for those who are hungry to reconnect with their higher selves and their own interior creature. Since she opened her virtual doors in 2018, she has worked one-to-one with over a thousand clients, walking them through their unique human design.

And her blog posts to help an average of 20 to 30,000 folks a month start the process of understanding their chart. She does really great work and she also offers a discount to pause, to go listeners. So be sure to listen to the end for the discount code and now enjoy this conversation with Jacqueline Michelle.

 Thank you for peopling with me today. I'm excited to 

Jaclyn: people with you today, and this will be good. 

Bree: So I first came across your website, which is just fabulous by the way, interior creature.com. And I'm going to tell you a little bit about how that happened. I was going through a pretty big life change. I was going through a career change and I had started doing this neural reprogramming work. And while I was doing that, I came across this thing called human design, which I have never heard of before. And I was really curious about it. I did my chart. I found it really interesting as a tool. Right. I am curious enough that I decided there are so many tools to sort of look at life and personality and changes and relationships that I wanted to find a way to combine them.

So I made a book for myself that was the book of woo. And it had astrology. It also had enneagram information had Myers-Briggs it had Sparketype. I don't know if you know that. Yep. And then I added human design in there too. And then I made them for my children and I made them for a few friends. And I'm not an expert in any of these tools. So I was looking for resources that I could call on that felt right. That felt accessible. That were well-written. And your explanations of human design so resonated with me. You're such a beautiful writer and also your use of, of art in your website is just beautiful. And so I want to thank you for making this tool truly accessible for me and for becoming part of this whole landscape of exploring personality.

Jaclyn: Well, thank you. When I first came to human design myself, there weren't a lot of accessible resources. Everything felt very like deep woo, like very esoteric, very kind of, you know, jargony. And that drove me a little crazy because I'm like, this is such a powerful tool for people to kind of explore who they are, do deep shadow work.

We should talk about it in a way that's more practical, actionable, accessible. So I tried to build the thing that didn't exist when I was first coming to the system. And now there's so many people talking about it, so it's kind of exploded, but I really appreciate your words like that. It makes me happy.

That's why I built it. So, 

Bree: so I imagine that a number of listeners probably don't know what human design is. 

Jaclyn: It's pretty new. I totally understand. 

Bree: Can you explain it? 

Jaclyn: So human design it's considered. Channeled system, but you don't have to believe in channeling or any of that stuff for it to be kind of helpful for you.

It combines four kind of ancient wisdom teachings that have been around for hundreds and hundreds of years. So the guy that quote unquote channeled it basically had been studying all four of these systems and that just had this kind of epiphany this download, if you will where he realized how they could all work in tandem with each other.

So it pulls from the Hindu Brahman. Chakra tradition pulls from Kabbalah tree of life from Jewish mysticism comes from the IChing, which is an important text in like Chinese, Buddhist and Confucian and Taoists practices among many others. And it also pulls from Western astrology. Almost like it's combining together to make this, this map of how your energy works as you move through the world.

So it lets you know, kind of what gifts you've been given, what lessons you're here to learn karmically and how your energy kind of flows, like how your specific intuition talks to you. And then from there it gives you like a strategy for decision-making it lets you know, where you're really empathic where you're really like intuitive.

So it's just, yeah, it's just a tool to use to kind of do that deep self-reflective work and stop. You know, am I walking through the world in a way that feels really authentic? Or have I taken on a lot of conditioned behaviors, ideas about myself? Yeah. And it gives you the agency to kind of like interrupt some of those patterns.

I love that conditioning is really at the core of working with human design Recognizing how social conditioning impacts us specifically, according to our human design types. Can you give us a little example of what the different types are? 

It's funny, actually, my background before I came to human design was actually child development.

I worked as a teacher and I think when we're kids, we don't realize that as. We're a little sponges. We're absorbing so much information about our identity, who we are so much that we're co-authoring with other people. And I think like again, human design shows us very clearly where that is. So in our charts and our human design charts, we have these things called centers.

They're based loosely on the chakras and it's basically. Kind of how our different aspects of our energy works, whether we're really kind of getting messages from within ourselves or whether we're taking in messages from other people. And through that kind of patterning, I guess, of those different centers, which ones present as they say open, or which one's present is closed.

We're given something called a type and our type, basically it's like a series of traits that we all kind of share in common. There are generators and manifesting generators. There are people who are builders and doers and accomplishers and creators. They're projectors. Guide there are manifesters who are like big idea people who kind of run toward things and figure it out as they go.

And then there are reflectors whose charts are completely open. They have all of their centers open. They're basically walking empaths, walking mirrors for society. So the way those centers we have are organized, dictates which one of these five, five or four types we are. And then from there we're given like a strategy for decision-making.

You know, learn to discern what's mine versus what's coming in from outside. 

Bree: And what is the most common type? 

Jaclyn: Generators and manifesting generators? You and I are both generators. We are about 80% of the world's population and the other 20% is comprised mostly of projectors. And then manifestors and reflectors reflectors are less than like, I, it depends on whose statistics you're looking at less than two, less than 1% of the world's population.

They are a very rare type of individual, but most folks are either a generator or a manifesting generator 

Bree: so interesting. another thing that has come up on my radar that seems very closely related to human design. And I noticed that you also included in some of your materials. Is the gene key.

Jaclyn: Yeah. 

Bree: What is that? 

Jaclyn: yeah, so then we have the gentleman that, that named Robert Allen Krakauer. He's the gentleman at the quote unquote channel's human design. At some point in his career sharing the system with people. He had a lot of people who studied under him to learn human design and then in turn, share it with other people.

One of his students was a guy named Richard Rudd and Richard basically saw. The way, IChing kind of loops into human design. We have these numbers. If you've ever looked at the human design chart, you know, it's comprised of shapes that are different colors with some lines, connecting things and there's numbers all over it.

The numbers correlate to the hexagrams from the IChing. And Richard basically was like, this is the ultimate personal reflection tool. If we can look at the gates that we have activated, he calls them Gene Keys. So basically it's like we're using three names for the same thing. There'll be 64 hexagrams of the IChing. We call them gates in human design. Richard calls them gene keys, but he basically gives you a way of looking at that energy. And he thinks of them as kind of the same way that I kind of intuitively came to that. They're all either gifts we've been given or lessons we're here to learn. And it's the way our conditioning kind of collides with our energy.

That determines, is it a gift for us or is it a lesson? So it is booked the gene keys. He lays out. When you're in the shadow of whatever that that gift is or that lesson is, here's what it feels like. And he talks about kind of, and I know you talk a lot about shifting to a new paradigm in your podcast.

He's kind of trying to get us ready for that, that shifts that human design talks about. And he's like, if you're in a space where you are taking action, Other people to the detriment of yourself, you're in something we call the repressive, or if you're taking actions that are like glorifying yourself to the detriment of others, you're in the reactive.

And so if it's others oversell of herself over others, that's also the shadow side of the energy. And then he tells you what the. The gift feels like rather when you kind of are able to alchemize all of that stuff, shed some conditioning really start walking toward love. Here's what it feels like. And then he even gives the city, which is like the enlightened version of it.

So it's almost like it's, I always joke that, you know, we're told there's not an instruction manual to being a human. Yes there is. We look at our human design chart. We can look at our gene keys like there it is right there. Those are the big core spiritual kind of lessons to walk with. And so it's such a powerful tool to kind of really sit with yourself and go, well, what is my relationship to say, control or self-love or, you know, purpose and meaning like, you know, an acts of service, like that's all wired into our chart.

My not self, I guess, is what it's called as frustration. Is that right? That's as a, as a generator. Is it just sacral generators? Is it all generators? What is it all 

generators have the same not self theme. Our body uses frustration. I always liken it to like lane assist a new car. My car is old. I don't have that, but I understand the fancy new ones.

Um, where, when you drift out of your lane, like, or maybe you're in a construction zone and you have to kind of change lanes. If you don't put your turn signal on it beeps at you vibrates that you lights flashed depending on what kind of car you have. That's what frustration does for us as generators.

Every type is something called a not self theme. And it's your body's way of letting you know, Ooh, you're trying to give your energy to something that actually isn't for you. And so I'm going to make you uncomfortable. I'm going to kind of shake things up, make you a little uncomfortable. Hopefully you'll listen to your body.

And make a different choice, but if you continue down that path that will keep to do to get increasingly, you know, louder and more uncomfortable. It was 

Bree: so interesting because I think that I kept feeling like I was on the right path in my life because I wasn't sad. Right. I wasn't sad. Mm. I was a pretty happy person, but I was frustrated all the time.

I got so easily frustrated and once I made that realization, it was huge to then recognize, oh, here's where frustration is coming up in my life. And that was such an opportunity to reevaluate. And then to look at it from an Alliance. Perspective. What are some of the other, not self 

Jaclyn: states? Yeah. Projectors have one that's I think is like, it can feel so isolating.

So projectors, they're here to guide people. That's kind of the role as they walk through the world, they can either see like a process better than other people can see. Or they can see people better than they can see themselves. But since they're the guides, like if you've ever tried to give someone completely unsolicited advice, like, or if you've been on the receiving end of it, how does that feel?

Like it's like, Ooh, prickly, right? Like we don't want someone coming up to us and guiding us without our consent. And so projectors, a lot of times have to learn. Where their involvement is sought, where they're recognized, et cetera. That's actually part of their strategy. As they walk through the world, they're here to wait for recognition and then, then an invitation.

So their involvement to be sought. So when they do, when they start trying to guide where their guidance, maybe isn't needed, isn't recognized, they feel bitter. Bitterness is they're not selves. And I am the daughter of a projector. And I think through my dad's kind of experiences and like early in his career where he wasn't quite in the right fit and how he would come home every night.

So bitter, but he wasn't. The students, he was trying to teach. He was bitter at himself. He was like, did I pick the wrong field what's going on? And so that bitterness is really common for projectors. Manifestor's not self theme is anger because they it's so funny , they don't have a sacral that's closed.

So the thing that you and I share as generators and we share with all manifesting generators is we have this one center called our Sacral. And it's defined, it's close. So we are basically stewards of our physical energy. Projectors have it open. Manifestors also have it open, but they're a little bit more spontaneous, a little bit more impulsive.

They get an idea, an inkling, they just kind of run out the door toward it. Anger is the thing that lets them know. Well, I ran towards the wrong thing. Like it just will stop working and it's like turning up the volume on our frustration. It's like lane assist with all of the different things going off at once.

So it's the thing that lets them know you ran toward the wrong thing or you didn't inform the right people because their strategy is to kind of give people a heads up about what they're doing and when they're doing it. So they can kind of clear obstacles or, you know, co-create with them. And reflectors, just get disappointed.

I think they're so open and I've met reflectors that are really healthy in terms of understanding what's theirs, what someone else's, but a lot of reflectors kind of span toward either being so sensitive and not having the tools to figure out, you know, what's mine, what's someone else's. or they become Teflon they'd like shut down.

So if they're making decisions where they're actually following and mirroring other people's stuff, it's disappointing because they think in the moment it's going to feel good. And then they commit to it and start following through and they realize, oh no, no, no, wait. That was what somebody else wanted.

That was what somebody else desired of me or for me, and I mirror it back and it just feels deeply disappointing. So yeah, that's, that's why they have the longest strategy in human design. They have to wait a whole 28 days before they make a massive decision because their body needs time to like feel into every nook and cranny of it and figure out what's consistently like, feels good for them.

Can you go 

Bree: through the other strategies? For the different types. 

Jaclyn: Oh yeah. So generators, we have one that's the easiest and the hardest at the same time, our strategy for decision making is we're supposed to wait to respond. Say somebody asks you to go get coffee with them, instead of just mirroring back their desire to get coffee, you and I are supposed to just pause for a second and check in with our body.

You and I have the same actually body level centers defined. We both have spleen sacred, which is really interesting. So I thought that was so cool when I looked I'm like, oh, 

Bree: we are basically the same person 

Jaclyn: except you have your head, mind and throat to too, which is I'm completely open other than that. So, you know, you at least have this like, consistent sense of what you're inspired by, or, you know, what your ideas are your bit consistent, more consistent in your, your vocal patterns.

I'm not, but anyway, when we're, when we go to make decisions. So, so it's like, do we go out coffee with this person? We have to kind of check it through the three centers that we have closed. Does it feel safe? Our spleens kind of trying to figure that out? Is it something we get to do or have to do based on our sacral?

And the roots kind of going, is it the right time to go get coffee with this person? So we just want to pause, check in with ourselves. And once our body gives us the green light, then we can go ahead and take action and say yes or no, but I think a lot of generators because we're wired to be doers. We just do we say, okay.

And then we're midway through coffee going, why did I say yes to this? I don't really want to be here or whatever it is. So our strategy is to wait for our body to talk to us and then respond. Projectors, have that wait for recognition and an invitation. They're checking in with their body, as they're like, say they're interviewing for a job,

as they're applying, they have to recognize themselves in that job posting like, Ooh, am I the type of person they're looking for when they're interviewing, they have to say, do I feel seen, heard, valued, included is my involvement sought or. People trying to pass off my ideas as their own or people talking over me either.

Do I feel like I'm really present in this room, et cetera. Like, so they're waiting for that deep recognition and it has to feel good in their body as well. So they might have their spleen defined or their solar plexus, the solar plexus might go. Do I care enough about these people, this opportunity? Like, does it feel emotionally resonant?

So they're waiting for that yes from their body and the situation externally to correct. So it's kind of a little bit. It can take a little longer. The reflector is have to wait that full 28 days, that's their strategy. And it's only for big decisions, not for like, do I buy this blouse? Do I have coffee with this person?

Cause like we don't have time for that. They can just kind of be surprised pleasantly by what feels good in the moment. But when it comes to a massive decision, they do have to kind of wait for basically, and to bring an astrology, the moon will transit every single one of their gates over the course of the 28 day period.

They're feeling into all of their different gifts and traits and habits and, you know, challenges and they'll figure out what's consistent over the course of that. Manifestors of the only ones who don't have that word weight in their strategy, their strategy as they're making decisions is they just go toward the thing that feels good.

And then they're double-checking with what they've got closed in their body, their authority, as they're doing it and telling people what they're going to do before they do it. And it's very strategic. So it's like, if you were going to do. Buy a house, for example, like you might want to tell your partner that's something that you want to do, and hopefully they're on board with you or, you know, tell your real estate agent, maybe tell a financial advisor, but you might have a neighbor that you don't want to tell until like, you actually are nailing the sign in front of your lawn or whatever.

Like, so it's about being strategic about who you tell what you tell them and when, so they can either co-create with you or help move obstacles out of the way. If someone's going to become an obstacle, if you tell them, then you have to be strategic about like how much you let them know. And when, cause manifestors really just want to be able to walk through the world unimpeded.

Cause it's just kind of like their body knows and they just 

go. Yeah. One of my daughters is a manifester. I have one daughter who is a manifesting generator and then another who is a manifestor. And my manifestor daughter is just go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And I have to say, whoa, whoa.

Like, don't forget to clue us in from time to time on what's happening. 

Exactly. And I think that's, that's something kids learn. I think when they're little, especially manifestor children. They start realizing that they have to give people the heads up because if they don't, you know, either we get worried about them or, you know, it just, and they start realizing too, like they have to be really strategic about it.

Like, so it's always interesting to watch them kind of navigate that 

Bree: It's been really fun to talk about our different types as a family. And for me to just have some more tools as a parent, to be a little more sensitive to, to where they're coming from. And so that's really cool.

Tell us about your path to becoming a human design expert. How did this happen for you? 

Jaclyn: Well, true. One-three fashion, we have something called a profile in human design. And part of my way I walked through the world is by bumping into things, totally bumped into this. So I left when I left college, even back further, I thought I wanted to be an actress for.

The majority of my childhood, you would ask me at 16, would I be doing, I would have been convinced I'd be on Broadway right now. No, I got to college for theater realized this is not what I want to be doing. This doesn't feel good anymore. And so I, I joined a nonprofit after college and went into the classroom and I taught in a low income area in New York city for a few years.

And so it started in education. And then from there, I found that I was adept to teaching kids how to, how to read, like that just came very naturally to me. And I love children. I think they're fantastic. I had first and second graders. And so, yeah, so I did that for a while. And then New York city has such a Massive school system, that when they find someone who's good at something, they quickly promote them. And so it became very, like very quickly in my career. People were like, you're very good at this. We want you to do this next. And they kept, like, I started working for the nonprofit. Then I got headhunted to work for a charter school.

And so I spent about 15 years working in education, either teaching kids how to read, or then finally teaching teachers how to teach kids how to read. And I ended up at one of the top three educational companies in the country. And from there. I quickly again, kept getting promoted and I was doing all the things that theoretically should have made me feel successful, but I was working 80 hours a week.

The, the nature of the job kept changing. The responsibilities kept changing and I got really burnt out. My schedule was incredibly travel heavy. I was leaving on a Sunday, getting home on Friday at midnight having been in five states over the course of that week. And it really, I looked at my calendar from that time. If I wasn't traveling. I was in front of teachers and if I wasn't in front of teachers, I was on a plane or I was, you know, I was barely sleeping. Anyway, my body started to kind of shut down and I ended up with a ton of auto-immune issues and I also was drinking quite a bit at the time. Not healthy and not a good coping mechanism.

And so finally my body just said like it was done. I happen to be at the time. I'm also, I'm a Pisces, I'm a Pisces sun and moon. I've been Pisces mercury. Like I've always been very like spiritually, emotionally, like, you know, curious. So during the time I was doing all that traveling, I had downloaded a lot of podcasts that were, you know, spiritual or astrology based, et cetera. And I was in a Facebook group for one of those podcasts and someone posted this question and she's like, I feel like my job has eaten my life. I need a tool to kind of help me find myself again. Does anyone have any suggestions? And I was like, I remember it was about halfway to a bottle of wine at that time.

And I remember going, did I write that like, hold on a sec, did i post to this facebook group, but not remember it because it literally felt like she was describing me at the time. Cause I definitely had like lost the thread of who I was. I was so on that hamster wheel, just doing, doing, doing that I was like, I, some of these to give, I read the rest of the thread and I was reading people's comments and someone said human design changed my life.

I got to reading, it gave me all these tools. It gave me all these things to reflect on. That is what you should do. And I remember going human what? What, like, I, didn't never heard of it at the time. And in my, you know, two thirds of a bottle of wine at this point, I went on to Amazon. Ordered every book that they had on human design, it was the best drunk decision I think I've ever made in my life. By the time all the books arrived, I had quit my job and I basically was bedridden. I was so like, my body was in such a state of like adrenal fatigue and all that. I was just in a down. And so for about six months, I slept, I read about human design. I slept some more. I read about human design and I, my whole goal at first was I want to understand my chart because I do not remember who I was before this job.

And I feel like I have outsourced all of my major decisions to other people since I left college. And like, I need to figure out what I want and through. Discovering this tool and discovering all these really powerful things about myself. It felt like looking at a mirror that was compassionate, but critical at the same time.

Like it was an accurate mirror that was like, you know, these are the things you're wired for. These are the things you're not, and here's where you might walk into some trouble. And it just felt so supportive and I felt so seen and deeply understood, which was creepy because it's computer software, like you put in your birthday place and time, and it gives you this chart that looks wacky.

And then I was like, how does this thing know? But once I figured it out for myself, I started doing what I think a lot of people do. I started pulling for friends, for family members and looking at their charts where it was also really healing to understand, you know, this is why my brother and I butt heads, or this is why my mom and I struggled with this thing at that point in time.

As we were sharing, it's kind of the top of the conversation. There. Weren't a lot of resources out there that felt very accessible, practical, actionable. And from my background, teaching kids, how to read, I got really good at making very complex things. Very simple. So I always been a writer. I decided to start writing about it.

And, you know, from there kind of got pushed out of the nest to start giving readings. And now that's kind of accidentally became my next career while I was using it to try to figure out what my next career would be. It kind of became my, my 

next career. 

Bree: Because I stumbled upon your site.

And I loved it so much. I truly thought that I, I was like, I, I have found this person, I'm the only person who has found this career, but you actually help like upwards of 20,000 people a month are using your website. That's, 

Jaclyn: it's funny because I don't have a marketing background. I did work in sales for a while, but it was because like the program I was working with was really good.

Like, I don't have that as my, like, you know, my formal education. I don't know if it's my website's good at SEO. I don't know. But just, I found that like, I, my metrics just, they surprise me every month when I see the number of like unique people that come to my site and leave me comments. And it just, it, I can't tell you how much it means.

The comments I get are like, this is the first time I've understood that concept. I'm like, oh my goodness. Look at that. That's what makes me feel. That's what gets me up every day. It's my sacral yes.. To help people make meaning of this tool. That can be so 

powerful. I, I know that we'll talk about how to get in touch with you, how to access all that you have to offer in a little bit.

I love to flip and, and talk about because you have made such a huge change in your life. You're a great example. This whole season of pause to go is about creative change-makers and you have done this, you have completely changed your life. Oh, a hundred percent. And it is such a creative way to do it.

Bree: Your writing is just gorgeous. And I would love to go through, I have seven. Ways to really manifest change manifest is for SEO purposes. Exactly. And for those who don't know, SEO, that we've referred to now a couple of times as search engine optimization, and it's why you see anything that you see on the internet.

So just letting you know that. I love to go through the seven and just have you do a rapid fire response to how each way. Ben important in your life. So the first one is emotional. What has your emotional path been or has it been important? 

Jaclyn: 100% when I was in that space of just working 80 hours a week and I wish I was being hyperbolic.

It wasn't, I wasn't in touch with my emotions. I was really in a state of fight or flight and just kind of like walk through the world. And I was using alcohols as a numbing tool. When I wasn't working, I was drinking and I was drinking way more than I should. I wasn't an alcoholic. I feel like it's almost disrespectful to alcoholics to call myself that, but I definitely was abusive.

I was in that very gray area of abusive drinking and I realized. I actually needed to start feeling my feelings. That that was actually a big part of what allowed me to kind of go through this change was I had to stop hiding from them and allow myself to really sit with them and to do that. I had to get sober.

And so that was a big part of, I think for myself, like I, I am a complete. Different human than I was at that point in time, because I actually allow myself to feel things now actually allowing yourself to have feelings is kind of important and you know, all those tools that we use to numb it, that was a big thing that was holding me back from making deeper connections with friends, with loved ones, et cetera.

Okay. So much more present and human design also helped me with understanding my emotions. You and I both have an open emotional solar plexus, which means we sponge mirror and magnify other people's feelings, as well as feeling our own. So even knowing that and kind of working with that openness has been really helpful.

What 

Bree: I really appreciate is to celebration of feeling all of the emotions, the full spectrum of emotions. 

Jaclyn: Posted this fantastic wheel the other day on Instagram.

And then like it had like, it was color coded and it was all these different shades of like disappointed, like, you know, a little bit, you know, despondent like nostalgic and it was like all these feelings and we used to actually have a graphic in our classroom for some of our students that struggled, maybe with had some special needs where they'd have little face and the faces would show the different emotions and I'm like, Articulate how you're feeling.

Go point to one. And like, that was, I feel like I need one of 

those, 

Bree: that wheel is, is pretty amazing and I will link it in the show notes because it, it really is very helpful and they do also have it available as like pillows and refrigerator, magnets and all sorts of things. The next one is spiritual.

Jaclyn: Oh man. As I was manifesting my massive change again, there wasn't any room for anything in my life, when I was in that. When I was in that corporate position, but work and even going back and tapping back into those parts of myself, like I grew up Catholic and I had left the church and I had such a wonky conversation with myself about like what I even believed and what.

I felt, and I think for years, again, just like the emotions, I kind of said, we'll deal with that later. We kind of put that to the side. So part of what's helped me again, manifest this change is sitting with some of those questions and going back to the practices that I, you know, identified with as a kid, I've had a taro deck since I was 14.

I know that. It sounds a little funny, but like I was that weird kid who's like, let's test the cards, but I found that pulling taro cards on a regular basis, like I actually did a reading for myself last night it's another beautiful kind of place to stop and intentionally reflect and like, check in with how your body is responding to the different cards.

Any sort of practice that puts us back in touch with ourselves and to like source whatever you want to call it, I think is just, you know, is, is needed. So, but building meditation and taro back into my life, like in addition to the work I'm doing around human design, those were small things I could do each day that got me in touch with something a little bit bigger than myself.

And I think that that's the three things that you've said pausing reflecting. And then really it's expanding, right? Recognizing that it's bigger than you. Those are tools that we all need more of every day and it doesn't really matter how you do it. Wow. So for you, that may be taro cards. For me, it may be the way that I really savor my cup of coffee.

Right. 

I have a friend who has like a journal. She goes through every morning. They give like a little prompt for each day and I always laugh. Cause I'm like, that's kind of like the same thing. My taro is asking me, but like, she came from a background where that's like, she's not quite ready for tarot cards yet.

And I'm like, that's cool. That totally works. But it's, it's such a beautiful way of sitting with yourself and asking yourself questions and thinking about how you fit into, you know, this big blue dot we're all a part of. 

The next one is 

analytical. Reading has always been such a massive part of my life.

And again, that was another thing that went on pause when I was just in survival mode, my career. And so I always have a fiction and a nonfiction book going on at once. And I try to pick nonfiction books that teach me something that pushed me in some way. Open my eyes to something that maybe I wouldn't have considered before, because it is a beautiful, analytical exercise to go.

Do I agree with this person, like where might this be coming from? Is there a bias here? What are their sources like? So making sure that I always have space in my day to be thinking about something that's non-fiction oriented or listening to podcasts that even like push my view or, you know, provide analysis on things that are going on and like, not just passively listening.

Stopping and kind of having a conversation with myself or my dogs. They don't realize they helped me process things sometimes, but talk to them and like they're well, okay, now you figure things out. But when those pieces are missing, sometimes again, we're in that doing mode. Like it just, it's the simple little things we can introduce back in 

Bree: processing component is so crucial.

And, and I also listened to a lot of podcasts. I'm a podcast junkie. It's. There may be a problem, but one of the things that, that I've done lately, and I would say in the last six months is whenever I listened to a podcast, I stop. And I think what are my key takeaways from this? And I include those in my podcast to sort of force people who are listening to have those takeaways, but it's been very helpful.

Because it's very easy to just consume, consume, consume. So absolutely creative 

Jaclyn: creativity. I mean, the writing has been, that was, that was the part that was missing. It was funny. One of my kind of mini stops on my career was I used to work for a children's book publisher, and I. Uh, their literacy blog. I wrote a lot of posts for them, and that was the happiest I was at that job, even though my job was technically like I was supposed to be selling children's books to schools, but like my happiest part of my week was when I got to write a blog post on like how they could use a specific book to teach in their classroom.

And so for me, like the active writing, holding space for that, whether I'm journaling, whether I am, you know, blogging a blog post that you see or creating content for the classes that I teach, like, I, I feel like I'm only my best self when I'm actually allowing that creative part of me to flourish. And there's so much you don't ever see one of the best pieces of advice I ever got from a, a writing teacher in high school was he said he just kept, like, I used to struggle with like turning things in because I felt like it was never finished.

It was never perfect. It was whatever. Cause we fetishize perfection and his thing was he's gave me an essay. And I cannot remember for the life of me who it was by, but it was by this author whose one. Accolades and prizes, et cetera. And one of the things she said was she would go back and make changes, even in some of those essays or stories or novels, whatever that one, those accolades and acclaim and that nothing is ever finished, that everything is copy.

And that was such a permission slip for me to kind of go, I just need to create every day. I need to create something small, whether it's writing a hundred words, whether it's like, having a creative project. You know, hanging a picture. I don't know. It just, I need to do something each day that feels like an act of creation.

And I don't need to share it with everybody, but you know, I'm glad that what I have shared has resonated with people. I think that's lovely, but that was a massive part of my heart that was missing for a long time. I'm so 

Bree: glad you found it again. I am too. I missed it. Do you go back and change your blog entries often?

Jaclyn: I want to, there's a few things. I would definitely change my article on projectors. I don't love the way I explained it, but like, that's, I always have to say like it exists and it's helping people and it doesn't have to be perfect for right now. I can rewrite that poster write an addendum or something later on, you know, when it moves me when I feel good about it, but I try not to go back and self edit either because it's what I learned at the time and how I was sharing it.

And now I can always go back and augment and revise. You know, I'm trying to resist that. Like it has to be perfect kind of feeling. And my first line, I'm a one-three and like the wondering profiles are, were nerds who like need to get really deep into a topic. Um, and then we have this trial and error kind of part of our personality, but the nerd part of me wants to do.

So exhaustive encyclopedic and I have to go, no, because then I'll never publish it it's impossible to know everything. So at some point I have to just be like, this is what I have right 

Bree: now down with perfectionism. Just make the thing, the next one is intuition. 

Jaclyn: So this is actually a gift that human design has given to me, the tapping into our authority.

I think when we're children, we're not. A lot of times, even what intuition is, it's kind of this vague nebulous thing, but in human design, the system teaches us. Every single one of us has a different, intuitive voice. You and I actually have the same one. We have our spleen, our sacral and our route, all talking to each other.

And so they're kind of, you know, scanning our environment, scanning our opportunities. And it speaks to us in a very clear way at a body level. But someone who's got their solar plexus defined. Need to feel into things or someone who just has their spleen defined is going to just have to get this quick gut kind of adrenal.

Yes or no. So intuition being the fact that it's different for every single person was like mind blowing at first and then the permission to stop and listen to. And to know that not everything I'm feeling is mine. It could be me sponging mirroring, magnifying, just having that like coherent, you know, this is what to feel into this is what to, you know, this is the thing you can trust was just so I realized again, through doing this work in human design, I had outsourced just totally unintentionally outsourced.

So many of my major decisions over the course of my life. Like someone told me this is your next step. And they see really certain. So I mirrored that back and I took that next step. New to check in with my own physical energy or my timing or my safety. Like those weren't things that ever I just was doing.

And I think that's why I ended up so unhappy and burnt out. So even just pausing and checking in with myself, meditation has actually really helped with that as well. Like having a daily meditation practice because you know, when you sit with yourself and all you're feeling is what's going on inside of you, it's much easier than to tap back in.

Later on, 

Bree: we get distracted by our heads. 

Jaclyn: Oh man. I mean human designs. One of the biggest things that's taught me is get out of your brain, get into your body. The brain is great for, you know, once the body's made the decision, how do I execute on it? How do I make it happen? Like with all the little logistical details, but we can talk ourselves in or out of anything.

I'm sure you've had that two in the morning moment where you wake up and you're like, the oven is on and you're completely convinced the oven is on. And then five minutes later, you're like, no, it's definitely off. And like, we, we can do that anyway. Incredibly plastic. It's the body where the wisdom 

Bree: really lives.

Regardless of sort of whatever computer program tells you, your human design is right, because people can believe that or not. I happen to think it's a very useful tool and, and my children in particular, my husband, not so much, he doesn't identify with. Design as much, but my kids too.

And so we've used it as a tool. It's been really great with my clients, even if they aren't interested yet in checking into their own human design for me to know, oh, people are going to feel. Intuitive hits in a different way. It's not just the way that I feel it because I think we're often taught, oh, it's the gut response.

And, and yet for some people, it really is like, no, it's an opening. It's an opening in the chest or. Or 

Jaclyn: it's a physical leaning towards something, right? Yeah. 

Bree: So it's, really helpful to look into that, to, to have a better understanding of what that might look like for different people.

Jaclyn: Well, I mean, even just like, again, regardless of whether human design is a tool that you use or not like one of the takeaways. It's given me is that we're all wired so differently. And that empathy and compassion have to be the way that we walk through the world because not everybody is wired to attack a project in the same way, or, you know, pick a blouse in the same way or whatever it is.

It's like, it could be something massive or minor that we're all wired so differently. And it's such a beautiful tool. To use, to just remind yourself that like, we have to kind of meet each other where we are and everyone's trying their best and navigating what their body is trying to tell them to use.

True. But like also years and layers of conditioning. So let's all be gentle and kind with each other. We're all navigating this. 

Bree: Absolutely. Speaking of navigating it with other people, social, 

Jaclyn: I think connecting with other people who do this work or who have built their own kind of thing. Like maybe it's, maybe it's strange to even say this, but back when I, again, my job at my life, my only social network were the people that I work with.

And the only thing we really had in common was the fact that we worked together. And so having moved around. Once I kind of was able to put roots down somewhere and start meeting people my own age, who had, you know, similar interests, similar values, like that became really important life has been so disrupted, I think in the past few years, like it's harder now I think to, to meet people socially when we're all kind of masked and at a physical distance from each other, but being able to do that kind of right before everything kind of changed and find those social connection.

That was really helpful. I think I didn't really have social network. I think before. I mean, I had my good friends from my time in New York city, but I felt like I was completely, almost like cut off from, I was observing my friendships as opposed to participating in them. And now I feel like I'm an active participant in my relationships again, which is also really helpful.

Bree: Another thing you said earlier also relates to this, which is that you, you feel so much fulfillment from knowing the impact that you have. Other people and, and that is a social connection to change because it's not just about, how much money you're making this month. It's about like, what is the exponential impact of the work that you're doing?

How are other people affected by it? And sometimes we discount how much that means to us. That sense of reach. Yeah. I 

Jaclyn: so appreciate. When people say this was helpful or this resonated, or I felt seen, or this helped me understand this thing. Like that 

Bree: makes my day. And then the last one is physical.

Jaclyn: I think that was another thing that was very much lacking. I think back in my old career, because my body was a tool that I was using. To just be up right on my feet, delivering content for people. And it wasn't something that was mine. I felt like it was something I was using to give something to someone else.

And now being back in a space I can control. And at my time is my own, like the way I eaten, even as completely changed and shifted the way I move each day. Now I have, I love dogs. Three. I have two of my own that I've rescued and one that's I'm fostering, just getting out for walks with them, getting back outside nature, like, you know, those were all things that I think I had seen as like a privilege or like a special treat before.

And now they're just part of my everyday. So it's like that physical movement now is almost like a gift I'm giving myself. As opposed to like the thing I'm doing for other people. Like my body was definitely not something I felt very connected to at all. During 

Bree: those, I also was thinking about how you said that when you hit your rock bottom, you had some auto-immune things come up, you were in bed, you had to rest.

I also had that. Maybe it's a generator thing. Going hard, hard, hard, hard, hard, and then crashing. and I think about how taking that rest, that real physical rest gave me the space to then figure out the next steps. And it's something that we, that our culture doesn't make 

Jaclyn: room for a hundred percent.

I was loving even just the name of this podcast pause is to go, like I had to pause and the generator, part of me was so conditioned to like, you're not doing anything right now. You're just being, but I was like, I kept having to remind myself, you've been doing for 15 years. You've been running around working, over time and, and on other people's calendars on other people's schedules you given and contributed.

Now, your body is telling you to stop. That happens with generators a lot. It's absolutely true generators and manifesting generators. If we're not honoring what our sacred is telling us is a get to versus a have too. After that frustration kind of peaks. If we don't listen to it, we end up with like, it's like our body pulls the emergency brake and auto immune things were how it kind of flared up and manifested for me.

And so having that. Three to six months of just not doing anything. Even though my conditioning was telling me you're being unproductive, you're a blob. You need to do something. Figure it out. It was actually the best gift I could have given myself was just that time too. And I was very privileged in that light.

I had a savings account to support me. I, luckily, was able to do that for myself. I know that's not something everyone can do, but even just like not beating myself for not being productive. Yeah, like allowing myself to really rest and recharge and get back in touch with like my physical health, like the way I eat even has shifted and changed.

 I was eating in my car or in an airport or a fast food or out of a gas station in some places like. Salads, you know, I, oh gosh, I quit soda a few months ago. Finally, I've been able to kick that habit when I was traveling, I would drink those, have those giant trucker sized sodas.

They have like multiple of those a day just to like keep moving. And it's like, Giving my body so much abuse, and now I'm like, let me nourish it again. Let's figure out what it wants and, you know, say, I'm sorry for all those years, I was not kind to you like letting my liver now breathe. It's become a very different, like, I don't feel like I'm punishing or using it.

I feel like I've actually nourishing and listening to, you know, my physical body in a way that I just wasn't. 

Bree: It's great. So you've been through all seven now. That's all seven. You did it. That 

Jaclyn: wasn't necessarily a speed round. I was a little tough. It's the open throat. I just 

Bree: chatted through whole thing.

Okay. Here is a question for you. What is one wish that you have for people who are really trying to turn a hard time in their life? A hard transition into an opportunity. For deep transformation. What is one wish that you have for the, um, I 

Jaclyn: wish them the same gentleness and compassion that they would extend to someone else to extend it to themselves.

I know that, I don't know. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but I find that I am infinitely patient sometimes with other people, like even. Laughing about this this morning. I I'm fostering a 16 year old Chihuahua right now, who is so old. And so we have so many little special needs and every morning it's like, okay, Sundays, he eats breakfast, right.

When he's supposed to. And other days it's more like noon and other days it's more like two o'clock. But like with him, I'm like, you're 16. I'm going to just go with whatever you need to do. And I've had no problem doing that with this 16 year old dog, but with myself, oh, we beat ourselves up.

We put all this pressure on ourselves. we need to be as gentle and compassionate as we would to someone else to ourself. And we're going to things like we need to kind of love ourselves and support ourselves through these transitions, the way that we would. Another person, you know, an animal, like I think sometimes we're the ones we have the least compassion and empathy for.

Bree: That's a great place to start. And can you tell us how people can work with you or get in touch with you, find you. 

Jaclyn: Yeah. So I run the website, interior creature.com all one word from there. There's a ton of resources. I write a blog. There's actually a link on the top of my website that says new to human design with a question mark. I've hyperlinked a lot of really helpful articles there.

So you can kind of go in and pick the ones that have to do with your chart. I also teach human design to folks who want to learn the system who really want to understand not just their own chart, but how to look at someone else's. And so I'm teaching two classes right now that meet live. There's also options to take them, you know, at your own pace.

And I do a coaching program called karmic studies, where I work with people one-on-one and we go through literally every minute detail of your chart over the course of a calendar year and we really kind of hold that space for reflection and thought partnership. It's not like I have myself all figured out I don't, but I think it's really helpful to have someone to kind of have those conversations with, and, and to walk with Azure, you know, doing this kind of work and digging into what you want to change, what you want to lean into, et cetera.

So we have the karmic studies program and I also do readings. I love sitting down with someone for an hour or two. And just like, let me tell you all about who you are. And I walk you through all the parts and pieces of your chart, how they walk together and like what you're here to do, who you're here to be. And even if it's something where you're like, well, this is all, I don't know if this is even a true thing, et cetera.

It's a beautiful exercise. And just kind of sitting with all the parts of yourself for a couple hours and, and most people leave and say, I feel really seen, how did you know that about me? And it's it's. 

Bree: It's so cool. Well, I'm going to link your website and your Instagram, all your things in the show notes.

Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me today. Of 

Jaclyn: course. Thank you so much for having me in all of my open throated 

Bree: messiness. I love that open thread of messiness. It's the best awesome. 

Here are my key takeaways from this chat with Jacqueline Michelle. Number one, human design is a mystical tool that we can use. Not only to understand ourselves better, , but also to help us have greater compassion for other people. Number two, people feel intuitive, hits in different ways.

For some of us, it's a gut response for others. It's an opening or a tendency to move towards them. Keep that in mind, both for yourself and for your loved ones, we don't all have identical operating systems. Number three, when you're feeling totally out of whack, try taking a little bit of time to slow down or even stop to get realigned.

Jaclyn Michelle created a discount code for pause to go listeners. So if you're interested in learning more about your human design, Visit her@interiorcreature.com and use the code. . Pause to go. And all the links are in the show no